Zero emission road vehicles.

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steve s
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#226 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

Post by steve s »

Nick wrote: Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:17 am I( guess most heat loss is via the glass. There is a lot of that on a Tesla 3. I wonder what is more expensive in power, heating in cold climates or cooling in hot ones? We only notice the effect of air con on ICE's econ as they normally have heat to spare.
I would guess EV range is like the mpg used to be up the VW thing.
It will depend on quite a few things.

Head and tail winds on a motorway run can make +/- 20% on all the cars I've had. With an ev it's the long motorway runs that can be an issue anyway batterys are mu h more suited to the traffic light environment.

An early morning or late afternoon winters run (heating and lights) with a head wind could be the stuff of future ev owners nightmares 😀
.. unless it's a Tesla of course ?

Id guess EV car ownership will go out of the window, most will lease.
Who will want a car with an old set of batterys.

The issue I see for the future is when these teslas and other evs, are 10 years + old and on their 3rd owner, will that owner be doing there own repairs, and using pattern replacement batteries, or even replacing their own cells..
What will the safety be like ?

I think alot has to change regarding legislation.. but changing human ingenuity?
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Nick
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#227 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

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Id guess EV car ownership will go out of the window, most will lease.
Who will want a car with an old set of batterys.
Maybe, most new cars are on some form of finance with a large final payment so that part is already there. I think its more likely that we will see cars past a certain age being bought up and the batteries removed and used for secondary storage and the rest of the car scrapped/recycled.

I mean its not as if a engine doesnt lose power after 100k, you generally don't see people replacing engines in older cars because of the loss of power. And past a point its not worth replacing a engine anyway. Though like the remap companies, I can imagine software hacks to make use of the remaining cells in a battery better at the expense of remaining life.

Generally a engine failure means a written off Boxster, even though there are rebuild companies who repair basically the same engines for replacement in 911's. The only difference is the value of the car relative to the cost of doing the replacement. I would guess the same would be true of EV's but in that case the old battery will still have value and use.

Thinking about it, its no different now, the value of a second hand car is part its age and part its millage, so maybe no different. Looks maybe like 10% at most loss over 100k miles, so its not a write off.
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steve s
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#228 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

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I spent a day fault finding then repairing an electric mobility scooter
To be honest I doubt if electric cars are much different in the ways they actually work... I little more sophisticated sure, but the basics are much the same. Full electronic control.

By they way, they too are great things to ride on at 8mph.. I really enjoyed testing it !

At 63 it may only be a few years and one could be my main transport.. It will be environmently green of course .. but with envy ?
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Nick
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#229 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

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To be honest I doubt if electric cars are much different in the ways they actually work
Yep, in the sense that a Rally Runabout is the same as a Ducati Superleggera V4 :-)

I think one of the advantages that battery only cars have over ICE's and Hybrids is simplicity. Not that I am suggesting that the battery and systems to look after it is as simple a big box of pp3's.
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steve s
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#230 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

Post by steve s »

Imagine another lockdown in 30 years time.. or worse a 70s style power shortage
Your smart meter will monitor your ev charging pattern and the police could be at your door for going out in it when you should be at home..
I bet manufacturers will be able monitor your vehicle use through its connection to the mains anyway, much like my car does now via it's own internet connection.
It's not a bad thing in my view.
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steve s
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#231 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

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Nick wrote: Thu Dec 10, 2020 1:37 pm
To be honest I doubt if electric cars are much different in the ways they actually work
Yep, in the sense that a Rally Runabout is the same as a Ducati Superleggera V4 :-)

I think one of the advantages that battery only cars have over ICE's and Hybrids is simplicity. Not that I am suggesting that the battery and systems to look after it is as simple a big box of pp3's.
That's a good analogy nick, they both get you from a to b on two wheels, on a gallon of petrol, when it rains you get wet and when its icy you may well fall off 😀
Theres more similarities than you 1st think
And some advantages to the moped around town..100+ mpg to start
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Nick
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#232 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

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And some advantages to the moped around town..100+ mpg to start
Yep, I have fond memories of peddling like hell to start my Dads Rally Runabout. If nothing else it was useful for him fetching parts for the Vauxhall Viva HB I think we had at the time.
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#233 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

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FWIW, modern 125cc single cylinder 4 stroke engines do well over 100+ mpg thesedays. My little bargain basement Chinese 125 does ~120mpg regularly even in daily monster heavy Lundun traffic. The Indian built 'Onda before it was even better at 144mpg. I like cheap to run low power bikes.
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Ray P
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#234 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

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steve s wrote: Thu Dec 10, 2020 12:08 pm I'm the other way ray, it would be good for 10% of my mileage
We'll all be different Steve. For the last 2-3yrs my car has spent most of its time parked outside the house as we had started to make more use of trains for longer journeys and, of course, I do a lot of cycling - longer drives were already the exception before Covid arrived and since then I reckon I've put well under £100 worth of diesel in the car and its use has been pretty much restricted to visiting the supermarket once or twice a week - something like that little Citroen would be entirely suitable.

Perhaps my future model will be to own/lease something like that Citroen for everyday use, use trains for travelling into cities and the like and just hire a 'normal' electric car for holidays, trips to Owston and the like. One advantage we have is living only 10minutes walk from Taunton train station, which is well-served.
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Ali Tait
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#235 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

Post by Ali Tait »

Looks interesting, though it is VW. :D

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andrew Ivimey
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#236 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

Post by andrew Ivimey »

Very interesting!!!
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pre65
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#237 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

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I wonder if British Volt will be so pleased ?

"
A town in Northumberland is set to be the site of the UK's first "gigaplant" manufacturing electric car batteries.

Britishvolt said the plant in Blyth would create up to 3,000 jobs, with a further 5,000 expected in the wider supply chain.

Construction is due to start next summer, with production of the lithium-ion batteries by the end of 2023."


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-55263255
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andrew Ivimey
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#238 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

Post by andrew Ivimey »

Erm, why would British volt not be pleased, please?
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pre65
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#239 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

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andrew Ivimey wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 11:12 am Erm, why would British volt not be pleased, please?
Well dear boy, what if, by the time their new factory is up and running, battery technology has moved on to a new level ?
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#240 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

Post by steve s »

pre65 wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 11:16 am
andrew Ivimey wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 11:12 am Erm, why would British volt not be pleased, please?
Well dear boy, what if, by the time their new factory is up and running, battery technology has moved on to a new level ?
I would guess that with just a few tweeks to the production line, they be able to make any battery they have the technology to make.
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