Something stirs in the Undergrowth
- Scottmoose
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#827
Don't blame Nick. There never needed to be much moderation in the past, and at the risk of putting words into his mouth, he has always taken a hands off approach on the principal that the people here were adults and capable of reason. Unfortunately, what seems to have occurred recently is that a number of individuals who appear to be stalking Lynn Olson have discovered our quiet little corner and are attempting to disrupt things.nicoch wrote:HI
Nick no moderation here ?? !!
no one clean this mess ?
Speaking in the abstract, the best way of dealing with trolls is generally to ignore them -what they desire is reaction. So don't give it to them. The golden rules are these:
-Never address trolls.
-Never read a post by a troll
-Carry on with the normal conversation as if their posts do not exist, (possibly with an occasional abstract [never direct] warning every now & then for casual passers by that there are trolls present)
Eventually, they will leave since they have failed to obtain a response.
Last edited by Scottmoose on Sun Feb 02, 2014 7:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
#829
Thanks Scott, thats all it takes.Speaking in the abstract, the best way of dealing with trolls is generally to ignore them -what they desire is reaction. So don't give it to them.
I am slightly at a loss to understand just what I am expected to do here. If I delete someone account, they can just create a new one, If I delete their posts, the thread makes even less sense, and there is no history to their behaviour.
just ignore posts you dont like, that (to repeat myself) is all it takes. Of course that suggestion applies to Romy as well as anyone else.
Whenever an honest man discovers that he's mistaken, he will either cease to be mistaken or he will cease to be honest.
#831
I too am in full agreement with your stance nick
We are all adults
Its a shame,... Romy's advice could have been very useful to mark... who after all is slowly building his own horn system!!!
We are all adults
Its a shame,... Romy's advice could have been very useful to mark... who after all is slowly building his own horn system!!!
The tube manual is quite like a telephone book. The number of it perfect. It is useful to make it possible to speak with a girl. But we can't see her beautiful face from the telephone number
#832
I agree. Furthermore, if Romy is in a position to help Mark with his project, it seems to me Mark could independently access that advice directly on Romy's own forum. To be fair to Mark, I'm sure he never (nor would any of us) envisioned the outcome of inviting Lynn here.steve s wrote:I too am in full agreement with your stance nick
We are all adults
Its a shame,... Romy's advice could have been very useful to mark... who after all is slowly building his own horn system!!!
Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?
Douglas Adams (HHGTTG)
Douglas Adams (HHGTTG)
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#833
Removed by Lynn Olson.
Last edited by Lynn Olson on Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
#834
I must say, I am really quite disheartened and almost depressed by the tone of late. C'mon Lynn, admit it: in your attic you keep a gang of enslaved child fusiliers to fire puppies out of canons into the Colorado sky on your every twisted whim... it will make me feel better about everything.
Seriously (and ironically) - ignoring the noise in the thread, I've actually learned a little bit and am finally beginning to understanding what Romy has done / is trying to do in audio. My interpretation - and it could well be wrong, but anyway - is this:
Hifi - fidelity to the absolute sound (per Harry Pearson ) is unattainable as all transducers and systems are compromised.
Moreover, it is the wrong goal - music (at least what is "serious" or content-loaded) should convey emotion and beyond that aesthetic / ethical /spiritual / etc intent of the composer and artists.
In this sense, the audio system is an interpreter to help the source material "trigger" recognition of these other higher-level concepts and abstractions in the mind of the listener. Let's call them HLAs (I'm neither philosopher or psychologist).
Now, how might this relate to topics directly related to the thread?
1) Turning compromises on their head
Once this is accepted, aspects of the sonics which might have been viewed as detrimental to the "absolute sound" (including driver colouration) can actually be turned to our advantage; whilst the sonics may not be as faithful, we may enhance the ability of the system to communicate - in making it easier for our brains to decipher HLAs from the music.
2) First order filters
The mechanisms in the brain that take a raw auditory signal and process that, eventually leading to recognition of HLAs are most easily thrown by phase and timing aberrations. (I would love to understand more about this). Without fidelity to time, all loftier targets are lost. Hence first order filters are critical.
3) Dipole bass
I recall reading somewhere that before hitler addressed a crowd, subsonic LF would be played to create tension, and switched off as he began so the audience would immediately feel calmer.
Whilst, I'm pretty sure Romy's motivations don't involve recreating the nuremberg rallies, room-pressurisation may help convey grandeur/foreboding/tension etc... so dipoles for bass are out.
[Incidentally - guys I have some observations about the Lambda drivers which I will share with Mark offline]
In general though, it is obviously not straightforward to translate HLA recognition-enhancement into a complete set of engineering based guidelines for diy. Therefore, the practice of audio demands dedicated introspection and sensitivity from the listener to examine how he/she responds to "HLA content" in playback and shape the system to accentuate their communication. This can't be done unless the music has that content in the first place and the practitioner has concrete, personal goals relating to the communicative aspects.
From my point of view, our response to any piece of music will be shaped by prior responses to other pieces and associations formed from other arts and indeed life's experiences generally. The higher level the concept, the more personal the interpretation will be. Hence we are actually all farting about when trying to describe this stuff to each other (unless we are listening together and even then, words ain't numbers).
That's my understanding of where the Cat is coming from, I could have all this completely wrong, but I hope it at least offers some food for thought and salvages something worthwhile from the the vitriol.
As I have friends (not, I hasten to add, the blatant troll P.H.) on both sides here , I will bow out for now, as it will make it easier for people to ignore each other if required.
Seriously (and ironically) - ignoring the noise in the thread, I've actually learned a little bit and am finally beginning to understanding what Romy has done / is trying to do in audio. My interpretation - and it could well be wrong, but anyway - is this:
Hifi - fidelity to the absolute sound (per Harry Pearson ) is unattainable as all transducers and systems are compromised.
Moreover, it is the wrong goal - music (at least what is "serious" or content-loaded) should convey emotion and beyond that aesthetic / ethical /spiritual / etc intent of the composer and artists.
In this sense, the audio system is an interpreter to help the source material "trigger" recognition of these other higher-level concepts and abstractions in the mind of the listener. Let's call them HLAs (I'm neither philosopher or psychologist).
Now, how might this relate to topics directly related to the thread?
1) Turning compromises on their head
Once this is accepted, aspects of the sonics which might have been viewed as detrimental to the "absolute sound" (including driver colouration) can actually be turned to our advantage; whilst the sonics may not be as faithful, we may enhance the ability of the system to communicate - in making it easier for our brains to decipher HLAs from the music.
2) First order filters
The mechanisms in the brain that take a raw auditory signal and process that, eventually leading to recognition of HLAs are most easily thrown by phase and timing aberrations. (I would love to understand more about this). Without fidelity to time, all loftier targets are lost. Hence first order filters are critical.
3) Dipole bass
I recall reading somewhere that before hitler addressed a crowd, subsonic LF would be played to create tension, and switched off as he began so the audience would immediately feel calmer.
Whilst, I'm pretty sure Romy's motivations don't involve recreating the nuremberg rallies, room-pressurisation may help convey grandeur/foreboding/tension etc... so dipoles for bass are out.
[Incidentally - guys I have some observations about the Lambda drivers which I will share with Mark offline]
In general though, it is obviously not straightforward to translate HLA recognition-enhancement into a complete set of engineering based guidelines for diy. Therefore, the practice of audio demands dedicated introspection and sensitivity from the listener to examine how he/she responds to "HLA content" in playback and shape the system to accentuate their communication. This can't be done unless the music has that content in the first place and the practitioner has concrete, personal goals relating to the communicative aspects.
From my point of view, our response to any piece of music will be shaped by prior responses to other pieces and associations formed from other arts and indeed life's experiences generally. The higher level the concept, the more personal the interpretation will be. Hence we are actually all farting about when trying to describe this stuff to each other (unless we are listening together and even then, words ain't numbers).
That's my understanding of where the Cat is coming from, I could have all this completely wrong, but I hope it at least offers some food for thought and salvages something worthwhile from the the vitriol.
As I have friends (not, I hasten to add, the blatant troll P.H.) on both sides here , I will bow out for now, as it will make it easier for people to ignore each other if required.
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#835
Sorry to disappoint you, cv, but no cannons in the attic. Lots of Colorado snow over the last couple of days, though.
Here's a little present for those who have stayed with the thread:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dE-vOscpiNc
Here's a little present for those who have stayed with the thread:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dE-vOscpiNc
Last edited by Lynn Olson on Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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#837
Home run catman! Yes, yes, Hear Hear LOL - no doubt the troll IS olson and hiss puffery of self righteous bile - he's like the pansies in europe that have people arrested for holocaust investigation - anything that is thrown his way that castigates his narrow minded fantasies is rewarded with "shoot the messenger" DADDY DADDY GET RID OF THIS DENIER!
- Scottmoose
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#838
I meant to thank you earlier for the extra information re Shadow Vector and the quad systems etc. a couple of pages ago Lynn. Out of interest, what's your take on Wendy Carlos's views re the matrix systems? I know they didn't start to come good until the later logic setups, preferably those like SV, Tate, Sanusi's variomatrix etc. rather than the gain-riding types. Anything that could've been rescued from it, or better just sticking with running the decoder on stock stereo recordings?
#839
NiToNi wrote:Lynn, do you know of any 8" woofer that has the same tonal balance and character as the 416B?
Lynn Olson wrote:Wow, that's a tough question... The best 8-inchers I've heard are old Alnico-magnet speakers pulled out of TV sets and radiograms... I'd strongly consider 12" midranges... there's the 5", 6", and 8" poly cones from Skanning.
If I could stretch to 10", perhaps the Altec 406B is an option...? Unfortunately, GPA is not re-making these so I'd have to source vintage drivers. I understand they are not that rare though and were used in the Bolero and Madera among others.NiToNi wrote:I'd love to use a 12" instead of an 8" but... 12" is physically too large... If it wasn't, I guess 414-8B would be the natural choice for a 12".
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