Turntable out of storage!

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Ant
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#31 Re: Turntable out of storage!

Post by Ant »

Which bit sounds poor?
Top end, bass, mid?
May suggest an angle to look at it from
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izzy wizzy
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#32 Re: Turntable out of storage!

Post by izzy wizzy »

"Better" is certainly in the ear of the beholder. Personally I can't get interested in listening to classical on digital but other types of music like electronica and dance music which has never seen the outside (a computer) world, I prefer streamed and even Spotify is fine but then that tends to be customised on the fly playlists which digital is great at.

Horses for courses maybe depending on what it is in the music that gets into your soul. A year ago I wasn't listening to classical at all but that had something to do with my TT setup and the cartridge to some extent so analog can certainly not be the magic pill there either. I find it funny that we're still having these discussions after the demise of vinyl and the arrival of CD. Imagine if we figured it all out?
steve s
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#33 Re: Turntable out of storage!

Post by steve s »

Ant wrote: Mon Nov 09, 2020 11:34 am Which bit sounds poor?
Top end, bass, mid?
May suggest an angle to look at it from
It sounds less real..I put it down to phono stages..?.. not my phono in particular if that makes sense
The tube manual is quite like a telephone book. The number of it perfect. It is useful to make it possible to speak with a girl. But we can't see her beautiful face from the telephone number
JamesD
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#34 Re: Turntable out of storage!

Post by JamesD »

It is inspiring that we are still having these conversations after 40 years of CDs and digital audio... although from a different perspective its sad that after 40 years we still have no agreement on how best to do it :D

At least we recognise that we all hear differently and that our perspective changes over time and with how we are feeling... no wonder double blind testing doesn't resolve debates about what sounds best!

The Engineer in me finds it frustrating that I can't design the best technical system that I can imagine and have it actually sound best - the artist in me rejoices that I can improve the sound of the musical performances I listen to and the hobbyist in me delights in trying new things and finding that they work better some times...

I do wish it all made more sense though and that there was, at least, a consistent direction that worked for all music types and all listening moods...
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#35 Re: Turntable out of storage!

Post by Ant »

It makes no sense, never did.
Perhaps thats why i find the blummin things fascinating
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IslandPink
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#36 Re: Turntable out of storage!

Post by IslandPink »

steve s wrote: Mon Nov 09, 2020 1:04 pm It sounds less real..I put it down to phono stages..?.. not my phono in particular if that makes sense
Errm.... no, not quite.
I mean.. many of us think vinyl has the edge in sounding more real .. but we are all using phono stages (not much choice !). Mostly home-built phono stages which we have worked on by stages to optimise. So are you saying that typically the vinyl systems we've brought to Owston with our own phono stages sound less realistic than yours ? :)
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#37 Re: Turntable out of storage!

Post by steve s »

IslandPink wrote: Mon Nov 09, 2020 4:49 pm
steve s wrote: Mon Nov 09, 2020 1:04 pm It sounds less real..I put it down to phono stages..?.. not my phono in particular if that makes sense
Errm.... no, not quite.
I mean.. many of us think vinyl has the edge in sounding more real .. but we are all using phono stages (not much choice !). Mostly home-built phono stages which we have worked on by stages to optimise. So are you saying that typically the vinyl systems we've brought to Owston with our own phono stages sound less realistic than yours ? :)
Yes it's a funny one mark . years ago to me records where better but these last few years the better cd sources , with decent recordings seemed better to me.

I have a system that sounds better without a pre amp in the way, so in my view 2 or 3 stages of a phono seems to take some resultion away compared to the cd sources I have.

It's been a couple of years since I've played vinyl, so it will be interesting to see once I get it going again.
I suppose its what's your used to listening to and on what, that determines your listening standards.

I'll revisit my views on my system once I get a record player connected...
I may have a pleasent surprise in store.🙂
In answer to your last question that's a difficult one to answer, I would say the ones I've heard sound very similar to my vinyl system, my phono is weak in the bass, and most sound better there, but mine has a nice sound when you look past the bass. Its something that I have on the cards to improve upon... one day !
The tube manual is quite like a telephone book. The number of it perfect. It is useful to make it possible to speak with a girl. But we can't see her beautiful face from the telephone number
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#38 Re: Turntable out of storage!

Post by Ant »

Are you still using that m3d steve?
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#39 Re: Turntable out of storage!

Post by IslandPink »

Ah, I understand better what you meant there, Steve.
Swapping back and forth between my vinyl set-up and Nick's DAC has given me a bit more information about what's lacking in phono amps typically, some of this would also be the vinyl itself. I can't quite get as much tonal colour ( what you might call 'saturation' ) in the bass and mids with the vinyl/phono. Some of this would be redressed by going LCR I'm sure. Nick has also pointed out the importance of trying to get the RIAA as accurate as possible for the same reason. The bass end is always lacking vs. CD , but in my set-up I know a lot of that is the step-up. They are such a headache for higher impedance carts like the Denon. Maybe James's forthcoming efforts on a head amp will be good. I know the jFet front-end sorted out the bass amazingly in my system but i couldn't quite get happy with it higher-up. Also vinyl from the early 70's does often lack quite a bit vs. the master tape, you can tell when you hear a remixed CD update.
I should follow Steve C/Ant/James and try a good MM cart some time.
However i find the top end is easily better on vinyl than what I can get out of 16-bit CD. There's a kind of spacious floaty authenticity and really crisp edges on percussion sounds that never quite happens even on the best CD. I do hear the mysterious 'involvement' aspect that James and Nick talk about too - seems mostly on vocals for me.
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steve s
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#40 Re: Turntable out of storage!

Post by steve s »

Ant wrote: Mon Nov 09, 2020 7:16 pm Are you still using that m3d steve?
Naaa, still have them, and they have nice full sound but found out a shure m44 was not far off, but the m3d has a great full sound
I have 3 goodish mc's, a spu synergy, kieski blue and the rebuilt ultimo 30a.
And loads of mm's to play with... a few years ago I bought a box with about 30 in, from a guy in Leeds to add to what I've already had.
I need to start ebaying a few, and some decks for that matter
The tube manual is quite like a telephone book. The number of it perfect. It is useful to make it possible to speak with a girl. But we can't see her beautiful face from the telephone number
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