Decisions Decisions

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little eddy
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#1 Decisions Decisions

Post by little eddy »

Well being a good neighbour in these hard times pays off. Looks like my windfall includes:
Ariston RD40
Mayware Formula IV
AT30E
AT630SUT
Plus around 25 albums including Floyd, Queen, Joe Jackson, Dire Straits, Santana, Brubeck etc but unsure of condition.
Ariston Mayware AT (4).jpg
So what to do?

Thoughts are to clean up and test the RD40 to sell. Needs a new belt.

Always wanted to try a uni-pivot so overhaul Formula 4 including rewire. Arm holding clip may need replacing. So then have 2 choices: 1. make a new armboard for my Thorens TD-125 or 2. Make a new deck using a Lenco 75 etc where the Mayware has the same mounting distance as the stock Lenco arms.

I thought the Mayware wasn't very suitable for mc cartridges, (although don't know the AT30E). Most seem to recommend older mm cartridges so do I do I alter my Snail phono amp to bypass the step-up transformers? Thoughts or recommendations please.

That's me sorted for the lock down.
TD-125/RB250/MC25FL & 'Snail' phono, NAS/SBT with CS4398 DAC, 41MP pre & MoFo Power, still messing with OBs.
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IslandPink
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#2 Re: Decisions Decisions

Post by IslandPink »

Nice one. Definitely worth refurbishing the Mayware.
I'm not going to stop you using an MM on it - and definitely then by-pass the step-up, in that case, as you will get benefits in the low bass not having that with its limited inductance.
However the Mayware although as-sold is suitable mainly for high-compliance carts, you can get surpisingly good results with less compliant MC's by loading the headshell with some extra weight ( I use lead shim about 2mm thick ) and adding an extra counterweight.
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little eddy
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#3 Re: Decisions Decisions

Post by little eddy »

Well after getting an underslung Iceni counterweight for my RB250, I have no problem with bass, if anything it's too strong, (or I'm just not used to it).

So is it worth trying the Mayware against the Rega? Is it a case of being different rather than better?

Also did a little reading on the AT30C and seems that it is high compliance and quite a good match to the Mayware, and I haven't really seen any bad reviews. Might be worth keeping and trying because there is a spare new stylus included.

If worth a try, will need to make a new armboard for the Mayware at 212mm spindle to pivot, (Rega is 222mm). Thinking about buying a cut piece of acrylic. Any thoughts about optimum armboard materials for unipivot arms?
TD-125/RB250/MC25FL & 'Snail' phono, NAS/SBT with CS4398 DAC, 41MP pre & MoFo Power, still messing with OBs.
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IslandPink
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#4 Re: Decisions Decisions

Post by IslandPink »

little eddy wrote: Sat Apr 11, 2020 9:57 am 1. So is it worth trying the Mayware against the Rega? Is it a case of being different rather than better?

2. Any thoughts about optimum armboard materials for unipivot arms?
1. Certainly, yes. There should be a world of difference between the Mayware and RB250 in the upper midrange and treble.
I wouldn't have tried it unless James Doddington hadn't told me about it . He called it correctly.

2. I can't say much specific about armboards, just what you'd do for other arms. My current 'armboard' is not really applicable, it's the outboard 'pod' thing used on the Nottingham turntables.
A unipivot will interact with the armboard a bit less - it's more decoupled.
"Peridots and periwinkle, blue medallions Gilded galleons spilled across the ocean floor" ( Mitchell )
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shane
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#5 Re: Decisions Decisions

Post by shane »

I would say start off with an arm board made from the same material as the existing Rega one, otherwise you won’t know what difference the arm is making. Once you’ve chosen which arm you prefer (my money’s on the Mayware), then start experimenting with arm boards.
little eddy
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#6 Re: Decisions Decisions

Post by little eddy »

IslandPink wrote: Fri Apr 10, 2020 8:38 pmHowever the Mayware although as-sold is suitable mainly for high-compliance carts, you can get surpisingly good results with less compliant MC's by loading the headshell with some extra weight ( I use lead shim about 2mm thick ) and adding an extra counterweight.
The Formula IV has an effective mass of 4.5g

Using the Vinyl Engine calculator. The AT30E at 32cu would be below 9Hz with no additional weight, I guess that this is why it is one of the few mc cartridges used with low mass arms. Total effective mass 9.5g.

My Ortofon MC25FL at 16cu needs a total effective mass of at least 15.5g, but being a heavy cartridge at 10.5g so would need an additional 0.5g, (less than the cartridge bolts so in theory OK). Just need to be able to balance the arm so hopefully the counterweight is large enough but the shaft seems quite long.
TD-125/RB250/MC25FL & 'Snail' phono, NAS/SBT with CS4398 DAC, 41MP pre & MoFo Power, still messing with OBs.
Ant
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#7 Re: Decisions Decisions

Post by Ant »

Your f4 appears to be an early version, it has the bevelled counterweight and metal bearing housing, and interestingly, in the above picture is sat on the top of an audio technica (or signet) AT1100 baseplate to get some extra height. It appears that the correct mounting boss is there and has been fixed through the baseplate somehow. Maybe the mayware boss fits straight through the hole in the at boss and is nipped up with the nut underneath.
Sliding the cursor weight forward increases the effective mass of the arm, with it all the way forward and the tracking set with the counterweight, the effective mass figure should jump up to about 7g ish. There is a small stop pin in the arm tube that stops the cursor weight about 2 thirds of the way along the tube.
It's more versatile than the figures suggest
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shane
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#8 Re: Decisions Decisions

Post by shane »

I did exactly that with the sliding weight. Mine didn’t have the stop pin, so the weight could be slid up behind the head shell. In this configuration the counterweight was just able to balance out my Denon 304. Paradoxically, using a heavier counterweight would actually reduce the effective mass as seen by the cartridge.

The 304 performed way better in the F4 than it ever did in my Rega.
little eddy
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#9 Re: Decisions Decisions

Post by little eddy »

Ant wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2020 10:31 am Your f4 appears to be an early version, it has the bevelled counterweight and metal bearing housing
All the paperwork states it is a mk 4 with bevelled counterweight, with an offset mounting hole that is adjusted/twisted to square up the cartridge.
Ant wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2020 10:31 am interestingly, in the above picture is sat on the top of an audio technica (or signet) AT1100 baseplate to get some extra height.
Yes but I think that might have been used because of the larger hole in RD40 armboard rather than to lift the whole assembly.

EDIT. There are some additional instructions in the box that say "for low compliance cartridges Koetsu, Supex, Linn Asak etc, it is essential to mass load the arm. Bring cursor right forward to the head shell and adjust VTF with rear counterweight only, making sure you don't upset the lateral balance". But personally I would prefer to add some weight at the head shell and use the cursor to fine tune the VTF.

All of the above cartridges are 4 or 5g lighter than my Ortofon MC25FL, so hopeful this can be set up conventionally on the Mayware.
TD-125/RB250/MC25FL & 'Snail' phono, NAS/SBT with CS4398 DAC, 41MP pre & MoFo Power, still messing with OBs.
little eddy
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#10 Re: Decisions Decisions

Post by little eddy »

1st part of the rewire done. That was fiddly - don't think they are commercially viable.

I have a suspended TT but what I noticed was that most of the available DIN tonearm leads looked very stiff. Roksan was different and I have tried to copy in terms of the cable flexibility at the DIN plug end.

Also few commercial leads have the additional 'spade' earth option at the tonearm which i think could be good if earthing of the tonearm via the internal DIN socket gave an intermittent contact.
Euphony Phono (3).jpg
TD-125/RB250/MC25FL & 'Snail' phono, NAS/SBT with CS4398 DAC, 41MP pre & MoFo Power, still messing with OBs.
Ant
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#11 Re: Decisions Decisions

Post by Ant »

You ought to see the arm cable that comes with the ortofon ta210. It would be utterly impossible to dress the arm cable, making it completely unsuitable for suspended decks. It's a good 1/2" thick and stiff as a tree branch.....
The old Linn one's were bad enough.
When I put a project 9 arm on the lp12 it didn't have a din socket it was bare wired. that wiring was connected to a tag strip screwed to the inside of the plinth, and then to the old linn basik lvx cable with the din plug cut off. So there was only the tiny strands of the actual arm cable between the plinth and the suspended bit of the deck. The deck then didn't seem to 'go off' any more which leads me to think that it was the arm cable dressing shifting a tiny amount that cocked the suspension up and made it sound crap ten minutes after setting it all up.
Iirc, the flying earth lead at the din plug end historically was there to be connected to the subchassis on suspended decks to earth them. I've seen it on several thorens td 150s and also on early sme 3009 arm cables, the ones with the big pins, and on the leak truspeed I had for a short while.
Nice job on the cable, that should work well with your thorens having the nost flexible bit between the arm and the plinth
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