SP10 fun
#1 SP10 fun
Some time ago, I made the clame that the SP10 was a good choice of DD turntable because it contained no special IC's, so was repairable. Well, due to my own ineptness last weekend I have been forced to see how true that was. Saturday morning, the turntable looked ill, it was buzzing to itself, the strobe was flashing in it sown time and the motor was trying to go in both directions at once. So I first checked the power supply, and that seemed ok, though there were 2mv burst of RF at 100hz intervals. So next the table was removed from he slate, and the bottom taken off. Nothing obvious. The I realised that there was nothing in the turntable that knew about the 50hz frequency that the thing was humming at. So measuring the power lines again under load, I found that the 5v line was dropping out at 50hz, so I was in luck the problem seemed to be the supply. After dismantling that I noticed a cap was leaking electrolyte, and it was in just the place to cause the problem. So replacing that fixed the 5v rail problem, and wonders the table worked again. So before putting the bottom back on I decided to measure the supply rails in the table. And they were fine. Until the probe slipped and shorted the 32.5v motor supply to the 5v logic supply. At which point all the TTL logic on the control board died
So I have just spent the last two nights soldering and replacing 16 14pin DIP logic chips, and replacing with thier modern 74LS equivalents. And wonders of wonders it works again. Ok, there is still a small problem in the start stop debounce isn't working verru well, so stopping the thing can be a problem, but hopefully I can fix thet without breaking anything else.
So I have just spent the last two nights soldering and replacing 16 14pin DIP logic chips, and replacing with thier modern 74LS equivalents. And wonders of wonders it works again. Ok, there is still a small problem in the start stop debounce isn't working verru well, so stopping the thing can be a problem, but hopefully I can fix thet without breaking anything else.
Whenever an honest man discovers that he's mistaken, he will either cease to be mistaken or he will cease to be honest.
- Cressy Snr
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#2
Jeez!
I'd have wept openly if that had happened to me. Power to your elbow for sorting that little lot out.
Steve
I'd have wept openly if that had happened to me. Power to your elbow for sorting that little lot out.
Steve
Sgt. Baker started talkin’ with a Bullhorn in his hand.
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#3
Thats unlucky Nick, hope you get it sorted. I keep eyeing the 'lytics in my unit wondering if I should change them sooner rather than later....the supply seems OK but I can't help thinking they could fail any time....
#4
Well done Nick - nice to know its possible if the worst happens.
Does anyone know anything about the bearings in these. In particular, the dark grey 'shim' or thrust washer that the ball pushes on. I have one motor that was used domestically, and two that are ex-broadcast. The domestic one has a nice shim, looks like new, the other two are noticeably worn. I have been wondering about replacing the shims in the worn ones....
Does anyone know anything about the bearings in these. In particular, the dark grey 'shim' or thrust washer that the ball pushes on. I have one motor that was used domestically, and two that are ex-broadcast. The domestic one has a nice shim, looks like new, the other two are noticeably worn. I have been wondering about replacing the shims in the worn ones....
Last edited by Max N on Sat Jul 25, 2009 2:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
#5 Re: SP10 fun
My sympathies Nick and well done, as you know I have been there, and it aint fun, especially when it was actually working before the little err' 'em mishap....Nick wrote: And they were fine. Until the probe slipped and shorted the 32.5v motor supply to the 5v logic supply. At which point all the TTL logic on the control board died
I would still love an SP10 but it ain't gonna happen for a bit. Need to sell some stuff first.
-- Andrew
- Dave the bass
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#6
Awww, well done on the fault finding Boss.
And well done for 'fessing up too Blummen lubricated meter probes!
Many years ago a wise old grey Electronics Technician at the first place I ever worked at told me that the hardest faults he ever had to find were put on the equipment by other Technicians trying to find the original fault
DTB
And well done for 'fessing up too Blummen lubricated meter probes!
Many years ago a wise old grey Electronics Technician at the first place I ever worked at told me that the hardest faults he ever had to find were put on the equipment by other Technicians trying to find the original fault
DTB
"The fat bourgeois and his doppelganger"
- IslandPink
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#7
Bad luck Nick
so... is your conclusion that the SP10 IS repairable ? !
I still have a long term aim to get one of those for proper comparions against the Hyperspace .
Mark
so... is your conclusion that the SP10 IS repairable ? !
I still have a long term aim to get one of those for proper comparions against the Hyperspace .
Mark
"Once you find out ... the Circumstances ; then you can go out"
#8
Its not perfect yet, the replacement IC's have I believe a higher input current. I have fixed the first problem this causes, but I thin there are others I havn't got to yet. Most obvious is the on off, but the table speed has a occasional glitch, a extra pulse is getting in somewhere. I think or the same reason.
Eventually I will get it fixed, so yes I do think its reparable.
Having said that I think the entire board could be replaced now with a single FPGA and clock if needed.
Eventually I will get it fixed, so yes I do think its reparable.
Having said that I think the entire board could be replaced now with a single FPGA and clock if needed.
Whenever an honest man discovers that he's mistaken, he will either cease to be mistaken or he will cease to be honest.
#9
Eventual answer, YES. all the logic ICs on the board are now replaced with 74HCT parts (about £10) and with the help of Andrew L to bounce emails off I think I have it all working as it should. In fact I believe I have found a bug in the original design that just happened to work with the original chips (a floating reset input), but was correctly preventing newer chips from working as they should. I had to apply a bit of a frigg to get the start/stop reliable (it is now) but I think its a problem due to lack of decoupling and PSRR that always existed but was missed due to the lower frequency response of the original parts. Well, I guess if it wasn't a problem it didnt exist, but YKWIMso... is your conclusion that the SP10 IS repairable ? !
Whenever an honest man discovers that he's mistaken, he will either cease to be mistaken or he will cease to be honest.
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#11
In a rush of blood, I also replaced the neon strobe that only works every 38th day with a couple of LEDs
Whenever an honest man discovers that he's mistaken, he will either cease to be mistaken or he will cease to be honest.
#14
I just drove them off pins 3 and 6 of 1C15, the two 1k pull up resistors provide a useful place to attach the wire, then via a 100R resistor to each led. I used pairs from cat5 cable to go to the leds. The ground went to the 0v end of C228. Don;t know about the original ICs, but the CD74HCT00 I am using is happy with the 15ma or so current, the duty cycle taking the LED's to ground is low as well.
If you are interested Gerry, the possible bug I found is the reset pin on the first clock divider IC2 is driven by one of the gates in IC11, but from what I can see (and certainly with the 7403 I replaced it with IC11 has open collector outputs (so the speed switches can pull the outputs and switch the three way latch. But there is no pull up on pin 3, so its floating, or at least it certainly is using current parts. It seemed to work using 74LS73 for IC2, but I was getting occasional speed glitches, with 74HCT73 and a 2k2 pull up resistor added to pin 3 of IC11 it seems to be rock steady.
I think the HCT parts work better than the LS parts due to their much lower input current. I had to do all sorts of friggs to get the LS parts working, especially around TR220.
If you are interested Gerry, the possible bug I found is the reset pin on the first clock divider IC2 is driven by one of the gates in IC11, but from what I can see (and certainly with the 7403 I replaced it with IC11 has open collector outputs (so the speed switches can pull the outputs and switch the three way latch. But there is no pull up on pin 3, so its floating, or at least it certainly is using current parts. It seemed to work using 74LS73 for IC2, but I was getting occasional speed glitches, with 74HCT73 and a 2k2 pull up resistor added to pin 3 of IC11 it seems to be rock steady.
I think the HCT parts work better than the LS parts due to their much lower input current. I had to do all sorts of friggs to get the LS parts working, especially around TR220.
Whenever an honest man discovers that he's mistaken, he will either cease to be mistaken or he will cease to be honest.
#15
For a while I have been interested in the 'Kaneta' mods to the SP10.
I think the mod can be thought of as two distinct processes:
1. Remove the motor from the square die-cast alloy chassis and mount it directly to a plinth
2. New control electronics
(I am mostly interested in the plinth mod)
Anyway, I have never been able to find much info, but today I came across this so I thought I would share
http://homepage2.nifty.com/~mhitaste/au ... 10mk2.html
I think the mod can be thought of as two distinct processes:
1. Remove the motor from the square die-cast alloy chassis and mount it directly to a plinth
2. New control electronics
(I am mostly interested in the plinth mod)
Anyway, I have never been able to find much info, but today I came across this so I thought I would share
http://homepage2.nifty.com/~mhitaste/au ... 10mk2.html