Thorens TD150MK1 Earthing

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Cressy Snr
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#1 Thorens TD150MK1 Earthing

Post by Cressy Snr »

Looking at the Thorens TD150 Mk1 I had gotten from our Anthony,to which was fitted an Origin Live Rega RB251, I had suffered the dreaded hum from Nick's phono stage. This was due to the Rega habit of not providing a separate earth lead from the arm base.

Connecting a clip lead from the earth terminal on Nick's phono to a screw head securing the Thorens top plate resulted in the disappearance of said hum.

Now this concerned me. Sure the hum was gone but it told me there was nothing earthing the metal parts of the turntable except Nick's phono stage!

I grabbed a manual for a Mk1 TD150 off the vinyl engine and sure enough, the manual said that the turntable was earthed via the tonearm third wire, there being only a ratty grey two core lead on the mains side.

All fine and dandy unless you have a Rega arm. Then there is no earth at all and a fault condition could potentially put live mains onto the subchassis, top plate, platter and possibly, even the tonearm itself.

I remember MJ in "Building Valve Amplifiers" talking about classic stuff from the 50s and 60s being all "without exception, outrageously dangerous" in terms of mains connections and earthing arrangements etc. Well here was the proof? Maybe, but I reckon there must at one time have been some bit of wire attached to the top plate at least and going to the original integrated arm base. Thorens can't have been that stupid!

So I spent the morning making the TT safe. I fitted a proper 3 core lead, taking the earth wire to a bolt, held by shakeproof washers onto the top plate. Then ran a very flexible wire from a tag I had bolted to the subchassis, back to the top plate terminal. I then tested every metal part for continuity to the earth pin on the plug.

Here is the mod:

Image

Now I may be paranoid here but after being thrown on my back by an earth fault on one of my earlier amps I'm a bit wary of this sort of thing.

One or two other things had also alerted me to this problem with the TT; one being a loud crack through the speakers when I took a record off the platter after cleaning it with a carbon fibre brush, due to the resulting static charge having no way to get to ground.

Anyway after carrying out the mod, hum on Nick's phono is a thing of the past. The Rega arm earthing method via one of the braids in the lead works properly, as there is now a 0V ground reference for the signal from the cart, that does not depend on a bit of flimsy black wire with a spade connector on the end, connected to the phono stage.

That this is the method they once used for signal and electrical earthing of metal turntables is quite frankly alarming. My LP12 used a 3 core lead and the same earthing method as in my picture. I never had any trouble with hum from anything I fitted to it, but then the LP12 was bought in 1988, when safety standards were a bit more sensible than in the mid 60s.

As we all like playing with old Garrards and Lencos it might be a good move to check out how these things are earthed electrically and if necessary take the appropriate measures to ensure safety.

Steve.
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simon
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#2

Post by simon »

Snap Steve! My 401 has a 2 core mains lead. When I give it a proper fettling it'll need a 3 core lead - can't earth an ebony arm : ).
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Ali Tait
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#3

Post by Ali Tait »

Steve I can totally relate to the paranoia! I've been zapped more times than I can count in the course of my job,luckily it's all been just LV stuff and I'm still here to tell the tale.Did get chucked off a pair of aly step ladders by some 240 once.....
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#4

Post by cressy »

i managed to get a belt of the motor on the lenco at the last owston while setting up! there was only mi old man phil and i think colin at the time so embarasment was spared :oops:
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Mike H
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#5 Re: Thorens TD150MK1 Earthing

Post by Mike H »

SteveTheShadow wrote:Now this concerned me. Sure the hum was gone but it told me there was nothing earthing the metal parts of the turntable except Nick's phono stage!
Yep...

I grabbed a manual for a Mk1 TD150 off the vinyl engine and sure enough, the manual said that the turntable was earthed via the tonearm third wire, there being only a ratty grey two core lead on the mains side.
Yep!

In the early 1970's we were just starting to get 3-pin plugs, I think it was about then. Well in our old bungalow anyway. Before that was all 2-pin. (And, as an aside, since TV's HT was got straight off the mains you therefore had a 50% chance of making the chassis live. Depending which way round the plug was. But I digress...)

On my Thorens-es the chassis is by default earthed through the left channel signal screen. And that's it.

You sorted something now but what I did was leave the 2-core mains as is, then add a separate earth wire for the main chassis. This goes to earthing post on the preamp box which is mans earthed.

Thin flexible wire betwixt main chassis and sprung sub-chassis.

Disconnect the left channel screen earthing connection. On the original TP16 arm this leaves the arm tube connected to the left channel screen I think, which was sufficient.

For the Rega, arrange separate earthing wire(s) for both arm and pillar, connect 'tother end(s) to the sub-chassis earth wire point.

Appendix
See my latter photos on "Thorns TD160B restore" thread (mispelt :roll: )
 
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shane
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#6 Re: Thorens TD150MK1 Earthing

Post by shane »

Mike H wrote:
In the early 1970's we were just starting to get 3-pin plugs, I think it was about then.
Sitting as I am on the sofa acting as a pillow whilst my beloved has a well-earned Sunday afternoon nap I thought I'd look this up, and was surprised to find that they date back to an original idea in 1942, and began to be introduced as early as 1947. Certainly I can remember seeing them in a friend's house as a 5 year old in 1957.

http://www2.theiet.org/Publish/WireRegs ... socket.pdf
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Mike H
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#7

Post by Mike H »

Oh really? Not in our place obviously!
 
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