I'm just fitting pair of Cinemag CM-QEE-3440A into a diecast box. I normally use a 103 and am about to get a 103R for my birthday present.
Question is, how do I wire up the TX for use with the 2 aforementioned Denon carts?
The ratios are a bit difficult to understand (for me) in that they're written as impedance's EG 37.5/150/600. I think Phils loaned Denon SUT's are 1/10 ratio, not too sure.
Can anyone enlighten me?
Ta if you can.
DTB
EDIT. Heres links to the Cinemag website. http://cinemag.biz/mic_input/CMQEE-3440 ... g-Coil.pdf
Cinemag SUT wiring.
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Dave the bass
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#1 Cinemag SUT wiring.
"The fat bourgeois and his doppelganger"
#2
Well, those impedances with 47k on the secondary would be
37.5 / 150 / 600
1:35 / 1:17 / 1:9 (ish)
So if you wanted 1:9, I would connect Orange and Yellow and connect the cartridge across brown and blue. Otherwise for the higher ratios connect as per the diag.
37.5 / 150 / 600
1:35 / 1:17 / 1:9 (ish)
So if you wanted 1:9, I would connect Orange and Yellow and connect the cartridge across brown and blue. Otherwise for the higher ratios connect as per the diag.
Whenever an honest man discovers that he's mistaken, he will either cease to be mistaken or he will cease to be honest.
#3
Here is a diagram I drew showing how to wire up 1:9 (600) and 1:18 (1:18).
The idea is to have 2 arms and be able to switch between the arm and then a further switch allowing me to choose the step-up. 1:18 works very well with the 103R loaded at 100R on the primary (IMHO).
Other wise the wiring is as follows (as explained by Nick):
1:9 (600) BRN to Hot
BLU to Cold
ORG & YELL connected together.
1:18 (150) BRN & YELL to Hot
ORG & BLU to Cold
Hot is the centre of the phono input
Cold is the Outer tab of the phono input.
Regards
Gerry
The idea is to have 2 arms and be able to switch between the arm and then a further switch allowing me to choose the step-up. 1:18 works very well with the 103R loaded at 100R on the primary (IMHO).
Other wise the wiring is as follows (as explained by Nick):
1:9 (600) BRN to Hot
BLU to Cold
ORG & YELL connected together.
1:18 (150) BRN & YELL to Hot
ORG & BLU to Cold
Hot is the centre of the phono input
Cold is the Outer tab of the phono input.
Regards
Gerry
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Dave the bass
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#4
Thats excellent, thanks for the help Gents. Brilliant. I was having trouble working out what was going on.
I've done all the box work except the 4PDT switch. I still need to get one those yet, I've only got a 2PDT in my bits box. The knob on the top is a 6 way primary loading selector switching between Nowt/100R/220R/330R/400R/470R.
Front.
Back.
Mess! (Having started to wire up yet, can ye tell?).
Thanks for the help both you,
All the best
DTB
I've done all the box work except the 4PDT switch. I still need to get one those yet, I've only got a 2PDT in my bits box. The knob on the top is a 6 way primary loading selector switching between Nowt/100R/220R/330R/400R/470R.
Front.
Back.
Mess! (Having started to wire up yet, can ye tell?).
Thanks for the help both you,
All the best
DTB
"The fat bourgeois and his doppelganger"
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Dave the bass
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#6
Yup, I'd planned to Gerry. You can just make out the purple/grey o/p pair from the rhd TX are twisted in preparation.Gerry wrote:Looks good Dave.
Twist the wires from the CineMags!
Regards
Gerry
It'll look all pretty by the time I've finished with it, rather like my lovely hair *preens gorgeous locks*
DTB
"The fat bourgeois and his doppelganger"
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Dave the bass
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#8
About 5 mins after I finish building them! Next week sometime problee.pre65 wrote:When's the first test listening session ?
You do realise you'll finally be able to have your own Denon step up's back don't you
Remember them? I'll send you a piccie if not so you can see what they look like seeing as it's been somewhat of a long-term loan!DTB
"The fat bourgeois and his doppelganger"
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Richard Higgins
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#9
Hi Dave
One thing you could try is to use the 36 x connections.
See http://www.theanalogdept.com/sut.htm
It's along read, but the relavent bit is;
Now lets look at an example of matching an MC phono cartridge with an appropriate MC step up transformer. The cartridge is the Denon DL-103. Its output voltage is rated at .3mV. We will partner this with a Cinemag CMQEE-3440A step-up transformer. The one in the illustration. This transformer has a split primary coil that offers 2 possible turns-ratio settings. For our DL-103 we can choose the 1:35.4 turns ratio. When we do we end up with a resistive load of 37.5 ohms. Here's the math: 47Kohms / 37.5^2= 37.5ohms. This seems very near to a match between the resistive load of the system and the internal impedance of the Denon. All should be peachy....right? Well, lets slow down a little and take a look at the output voltage with this cartridge and transformer combination. Output voltage times turns ratio equals voltage seen at the MM input. .3 * 35.4 = 10.6mV Seems rather high doesn't it? It may seem like we will be overloading the MM input with this system but in actuality we won't. Here's why: When the resistive load is equal to the internal impedance of the cartridge, the cartridge output voltage is reduced by 1/2.**
It's about half way down the article.
I tried resistors before and after the transformers, but prefered using the 36 x.
It would be interesting to see what you thaught.
Regards Richard Higgins
One thing you could try is to use the 36 x connections.
See http://www.theanalogdept.com/sut.htm
It's along read, but the relavent bit is;
Now lets look at an example of matching an MC phono cartridge with an appropriate MC step up transformer. The cartridge is the Denon DL-103. Its output voltage is rated at .3mV. We will partner this with a Cinemag CMQEE-3440A step-up transformer. The one in the illustration. This transformer has a split primary coil that offers 2 possible turns-ratio settings. For our DL-103 we can choose the 1:35.4 turns ratio. When we do we end up with a resistive load of 37.5 ohms. Here's the math: 47Kohms / 37.5^2= 37.5ohms. This seems very near to a match between the resistive load of the system and the internal impedance of the Denon. All should be peachy....right? Well, lets slow down a little and take a look at the output voltage with this cartridge and transformer combination. Output voltage times turns ratio equals voltage seen at the MM input. .3 * 35.4 = 10.6mV Seems rather high doesn't it? It may seem like we will be overloading the MM input with this system but in actuality we won't. Here's why: When the resistive load is equal to the internal impedance of the cartridge, the cartridge output voltage is reduced by 1/2.**
It's about half way down the article.
I tried resistors before and after the transformers, but prefered using the 36 x.
It would be interesting to see what you thaught.
Regards Richard Higgins
#10 re cinemags
Dave
I read that in general the lowest ratio is preferred ie 9:1 in this case. But, Gerry came round and insisted that with the 103R 18:1 was better. We did the change & it was one of the most obvious upgrades I've ever made. Scale, slam, delicacy, etc. Everything slipped into place. Can't comment on Richard's 36:1 though
Adrian
I read that in general the lowest ratio is preferred ie 9:1 in this case. But, Gerry came round and insisted that with the 103R 18:1 was better. We did the change & it was one of the most obvious upgrades I've ever made. Scale, slam, delicacy, etc. Everything slipped into place. Can't comment on Richard's 36:1 though
Adrian
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Dave the bass
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#11
^^^^^^^^^^ Oooooo! This is all interesting stuff Gents, cheers for the above info.
I was going to play first with the standard 103 into the Cinemags seeing as thats my reference. I was hoping to replicate the ratio or at least close to what Phil's Denon AU-300LC's provided firstly. That way I can hear how they compare before I start fiddling further into Pri loading and cranky ratio's and then the 103R into Gerry's desired loading, that'll be interesting stuff to play with this winter.
I need to find out for sure what Phil's Denons are firstly. EDIT. 1:10, just checked.
DTB
I was going to play first with the standard 103 into the Cinemags seeing as thats my reference. I was hoping to replicate the ratio or at least close to what Phil's Denon AU-300LC's provided firstly. That way I can hear how they compare before I start fiddling further into Pri loading and cranky ratio's and then the 103R into Gerry's desired loading, that'll be interesting stuff to play with this winter.
I need to find out for sure what Phil's Denons are firstly. EDIT. 1:10, just checked.
DTB
"The fat bourgeois and his doppelganger"
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Dave the bass
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#12
Well well well, very nice they are too.
After a bit of faffing about with the electrostatic and can screens I've got 'em hum free and sounding dandy. At first I had the 2 connected to the chassis earth terminal but had a slight background hum, using the power of the mighty cliplead revealed that taking the chassis earth to to the output signal screen stopped the hum dead so I whipped off the bottom and made a permanent job of it.
Sorted.
Fave setting with a standard 103...
Socket-to-me-baby.
Special thanks to Will, Gerry and Nick and everyone else who helped me get 'em working.
<Group hug> !
DTB
After a bit of faffing about with the electrostatic and can screens I've got 'em hum free and sounding dandy. At first I had the 2 connected to the chassis earth terminal but had a slight background hum, using the power of the mighty cliplead revealed that taking the chassis earth to to the output signal screen stopped the hum dead so I whipped off the bottom and made a permanent job of it.
Sorted.
Fave setting with a standard 103...
Socket-to-me-baby.
Special thanks to Will, Gerry and Nick and everyone else who helped me get 'em working.
<Group hug> !
DTB
"The fat bourgeois and his doppelganger"
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Dave the bass
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#14
Will wrote:What do they sound like??.....
You nicked me pants!
Bloomin' gorgeous straightaway Will, very pleased with them and well worth the faffing about IMO.
Cheers for the pointer towards them.
DTB
"The fat bourgeois and his doppelganger"
#15
Dave
Lookks really good. I found this last night which would have helped you (still it might help any one else):
http://www.haglabs.com/pdf/stepupschem.pdf
Are you using 330R with 47K on the secondary (phono loading) or have you changed the 47K to 1Meg?
Regards
Gerry
Lookks really good. I found this last night which would have helped you (still it might help any one else):
http://www.haglabs.com/pdf/stepupschem.pdf
Are you using 330R with 47K on the secondary (phono loading) or have you changed the 47K to 1Meg?
Regards
Gerry