Vinyl replay musings.

Mike H · Post by **Mike H** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 8:49 pm

Don't forget as Tony suggests a lot is down to recording, there are terrible sounding records and excellent sounding records, I've got some of each, same as there are terrible sounding CD's and excellent sounding CD's, terrible sounding mp3 and excellent sounding mp3, etcetera etcetera etcetera....

Yes it would be nice if there was a knob to twiddle to alter VTA ~ nevertheless considering that vynil is mainly a mechanical system it's still flippin' amazing it does what it does.

floppybootstomp · Post by **floppybootstomp** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 10:24 pm

The more I think about this whole thing the more confused I get. Really.

All I know is what sounds good to me.

I very very definitely can't hear any 'irritating fuzz' from vinyl. What I can hear with some vinyl is worn grooves, poor recording, occasionally surface noise, poor pressings and a whole assortment of mechanical anomalies.

But when I play a half decent vinyl platter all of those things I cannot hear. Unless, rarely, I really try hard then hands up, yes, I can hear it a little bit on some records, but not often.

Is this ideal sound a holy grail? lol, I have yet to find something that grabs me by the throat, shakes me, slaps me upside the head and just says 'Yeah baby'

If you know what I mean

Mike H · Post by **Mike H** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 5:48 pm

Must admit I'm not sure what "the fuzz" is either.

Unless it's sibilances? But then I can get that from FM as well, so it's not purely a vynil playing equipment fault, since that has nowt to do with it obviously.

In my case it's mostly reflections off walls and such, but I draw the line at hanging carpets or blankets across every wall lol

Although saying that I have a travel rug across the wall behind where my head normally is.

What I have noticed is on strong sibilances the tweeters appear to beam straight out in a straight line on either side, thus breaking the centre image (if they were both supposed to be equal). But I suspect this is wall reflections again.

Cressy Snr · Post by **Cressy Snr** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:33 pm

Mike H wrote:Must admit I'm not sure what "the fuzz" is either.

Well you know when you are a playing stereo vinyl record as opposed to a different source, it has a certain sound, that distinguishes it from all other reproduction methods. That "sound of vinyl" that so many love, I don't like it I'm afraid.

Now the sound of a mono vinyl record played with a mono cartridge on a mono record player is a different animal altogether, warm, rich and solidly grounded.

I'd love a pure mono system with a mono-wired cartridge in a Garrard 301, with big broadcast arm through a valve amp with a Klipsch corner horn or one of Steve's corner ribbons (wouldn't we all?).

There are still mono enthusiasts about. There's a guy on Lenco Heaven and I believe the venerable Mr Sakuma would use nothing else.

I remember well a few years ago before I joined the WAD forum in 2005, restoring my wife's mother's old Ferguson radiogram. We had a few friends round and played 78s and '60s 45 rpm singles into the small hours. Everyonel, without exception thought it the best sound they'd heard in years, coloured as hell but a lovely experience.

I love mono vinyl/shellac but stereo vinyl simply gets on my nerves after a while. Stereo digital streamed stuff OTOH, I could listen to for hours. It's just the way things are for me

Only my opinion, but wonderfully clever as 45/45 stereo vinyl grooves are, that method of extracting two channel information from a single groove is quite often just not up to the job, producing high levels of distortion unless set up to perfection.

In the early '70s, my mate's Dad had a 4-track stereo, Ferrograph reel-to-reel tape machine that just blew away records completely. He had a big collection of pre-recorded tapes from the 60s and a few bits of 70s stuff; not me or my teenage friend's tastes at all, but that sound still haunts me today....simply wonderful. Hi-rez digital comes pretty close to that old Ferrograph

S'pose I was spoiled early on.

floppybootstomp · Post by **floppybootstomp** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:04 pm

Sibilance? Now there's a word.

When your average smelly dirty roady used to wander across the stage in front of a hall full of punters with a grubby egg-stained T-Shirt and strides hanging down displaying a handsome cleavage of workman's bum, he'd test the mic. Most roadies thought they were dead cool doing this but all the audience ever wished for was that they would get off and get the band on.

The aforementioned roadies tested the microphones reciting '1-2-3-Test'. Well most would. But sometime around 1972 they latched on to a new test signal. The word was 'sibilance'. Roadies now had a new lease of life and they thought they were even more cool now muttering 'sibilance' into a 10K rig but in reality all they ever done was hurt everybody's ears.

A little slice of performing history for those who didn't know there (PS - I have been known to be somewhat economical with the truth and sometimes prone to flights of fancy).

Back in '76 I have mentioned before but I worked for Nusound, a Hi Fi shop next to Lewisham Odeon. Lewisham Odeon, incidentally, isn't there any more. And nor is Nusound.

We sold a fair few reel to reels, the main two being (I think) a Sony 377 and an Akai 4000. As I recall I don't think the Sony had Dolby and the Akai did but the Sony sounded better. It had three speeds. It sounded great. We used both on permanent demo.

Wish I had one of them Sony's now and a box full of tapes actually.

Ok, I'm waffling, carry on

Mike H · Post by **Mike H** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:04 pm

SteveTheShadow wrote:
Mike H wrote:Must admit I'm not sure what "the fuzz" is either.
Well you know when you are a playing stereo vinyl record as opposed to a different source, it has a certain sound, that distinguishes it from all other reproduction methods. That "sound of vinyl" that so many love, I don't like it I'm afraid.

N-no, mine tend to sound quite like CD's.

Which can be a bit spooky sometimes when I forget that it's not actually a CD . . . however the 'ker-plunk ker-plunk ker-plunk' at the end of a side is usually a dead giveaway though.

Mike H · Post by **Mike H** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:06 pm

floppybootstomp wrote:Sibilance? Now there's a word.

When your average smelly dirty roady used to wander across the stage in front of a hall full of punters with a grubby egg-stained T-Shirt and strides hanging down displaying a handsome cleavage of workman's bum, he'd test the mic.

Mike H · Post by **Mike H** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:12 pm

SteveTheShadow wrote:Only my opinion, but wonderfully clever as 45/45 stereo vinyl grooves are, that method of extracting two channel information from a single groove is quite often just not up to the job, producing high levels of distortion unless set up to perfection.

Actually, sometimes it's not a good idea to look at freq. response plots and ditto for channel separation, they can tend to look a bit grim.

Thank goodness quadraphonic never took off, how many playings of a record do you think it would take to destroy the ultrasonic band information? 2? 3?

pre65 · Post by **pre65** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:44 pm

After the reports of the Sunday afternoon vinyl session at Owston I thought I would fettle my vinyl replay setup and see what could be achieved.

So tonight I'm playing a few records to see what I think of the setup as is. I hadn't used 811a with vinyl up till tonight so I was a bit surprised how good everything is sounding. Currently playing Julian Bream and John Williams, and although I don't have this particular album on CD the record sounds much more open and "immediate" than their other CD I have.

So now I need to hurry up and get the slate plinth fitted and see how that affects things.

Phono is the WD Phono 3s (MM & MC) with a 401 and rewired Rega RB300 and a Pickering XV-15 (D625) MM cartridge.

pre65 · Post by **pre65** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:16 am

I had Phono3s apart this morning to give it the once over.

There are two 2.2uf big orange drops on the PCB, and I just so happened to have a couple of 2.2uf Clarity cap ESA in the spares box. So they have been subbed in.

Just burning then in now.

Mike H · Post by **Mike H** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 3:06 pm

And?

pre65 · Post by **pre65** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 3:13 pm

Can't tell yet cos the 401 is out of action while I test fit it on the (ex Andrew I) slate plinth.

My Polywhotsit speaker caps have just arrived so they must be fitted first. Big buggers they are.

colin.hepburn · Post by **colin.hepburn** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:17 pm

pre65 wrote:Can't tell yet cos the 401 is out of action while I test fit it on the (ex Andrew I) slate plinth.

My Polywhotsit speaker caps have just arrived so they must be fitted first. Big buggers they are.

Remember the golden rule
Phillip fit one at a time the Phono or the speaker or you won't know which is better or worse

i use clarity SA caps in my WAD phono

Mike H · Post by **Mike H** » Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:50 pm

Good point that Colin, and I'm still tempted while it's opened up can also do this and this and this as well

colin.hepburn · Post by **colin.hepburn** » Thu Nov 24, 2011 7:19 pm

Mike H wrote:Good point that Colin, and I'm still tempted while it's opened up can also do this and this and this as well

Yep snap
after saying that to be honesty I do find it quite difficult to only do one mod at a time like do I add the bypass cap to my JE EL34 Amp
Or the big Russian 0.22uf caps first or do I do both so the decision was to added the Russian 0.22uf caps first and stick to that rule of one at a time

audio-talk

Vinyl replay musings.

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