Sonido SWR-145/a Satellite speakers

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Paul Barker
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#16 Re: Sonido SWR-145/a Satellite speakers

Post by Paul Barker »

I see James, cheap solutions for me it is then. Use different drivers. Looks like youre going with that too.
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#17 Re: Sonido SWR-145/a Satellite speakers

Post by JamesD »

The Sonido drivers arrived today and look splendid. Impressive build quality.

I'll upload some pictures later.

Whilst looking through my stash of bits and pieces I discovered a pair of DiyHifiSupply Neo-fones that I had forgotten about and I have a pair of Alpair 12s (the original metal cone beasties) so if I get my act together I can do a proper comparison of the Sonido against the two metal cone drivers.

Hi Paul, I haven't given up on the idea of refurbishing the AERs but I certainly don't want to spend that much money now... way to much uncertainty! ANd maybe the Sonido's will come up to the grade, I have high hopes as Istvan worked with the Philips and Telefunken speaker development teams via the Budapest Electo-Acoustic and started with both Philips and Telefunken equipment and technology - amongst others.

James
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#18 Re: Sonido SWR-145/a Satellite speakers

Post by JamesD »

Here are a couple of pics.
Sonido 145-4.jpg
Sonido 145-2.jpg
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#19 Re: Sonido SWR-145/a Satellite speakers

Post by IslandPink »

Mmm... Nice !
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#20 Re: Sonido SWR-145/a Satellite speakers

Post by Paul Barker »

speaker porn
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#21 Re: Sonido SWR-145/a Satellite speakers

Post by JamesD »

Well I got the beasties on a test baffle of 70 *50 cm today and that should have an F3 of about 160Hz or so which is about how I will use them with the sub woofer. Started running it them in and listening and very pleased so far as they are good on voices and cello. Lacking real body on bass voices and the cello down low but the real cello rasp is there :-)

Arcam receiver is the amp of choice.... not! But its the one that used with the telly in that room...

Tomorrow I'll hook up the sub-woofer and see how they do.
20200530_160431.jpg
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#22 Re: Sonido SWR-145/a Satellite speakers

Post by Paul Barker »

look perfect
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#23 Re: Sonido SWR-145/a Satellite speakers

Post by JamesD »

Its taken a couple of weeks to get the Ruark Logue Rythum subwoofer working properly with the Sonido 145 but boy has it been worth it. Now they sound superb, lightning fast transients and amazing voices - I'm hearing things on some records that I never heard before and that really surprises me given all the years I listened to the AERs... but the Sonido's have a different balance - they are not as detailed as the AERs nor do they have the extended treble but on voices they are really good and so musical with great insight into the music - so good microdynamics, speed and delicacy.

I'm really impressed and starting to doubt my memory of listening to the AERs... My recent reference has been headphones and I have a pair of B&W P7s that have been my main audio reference for the last 7 years and a pair of B&W C5 as the travel reference and Ultimate Ears Super Fi 5 EB Earphones as a reference alternative. I'm getting more musical insight from the Sonido's with the Ruark sub than any of the headphones.

I can't wait to get the valve amplifier driving them.

The problems I had with the integration of the sub woofer were all the usual ones of where in the signal chain to derive the sub woofer feed from. Initial i had source into sub woofer that did the filtering and then amplifier to sonido's and spent ages playing with filter frequencies, slope and phase and just couldn't get it to work... Then reversed the signal chain to source into preamp section with sub woofer filtering with l.f. fed to sub. Again lots of playing with filtering frequency, slope and phase but same problem of poor integration and a muddy confused sound...

Today I went for parallel feed with source fed to a volume and buffer stage to dual buffered outputs to sub and to amplifier independently - Sonido amplifier run full range - baffles have a F3 of about 160Hz and Ruark sub using internal filtering to cross over at 130Hz with a 6dB/octave slope - immediate improvement on the sound but a bit sluggish - after an hour of playing with phase it suddenly sounded right and every seemed to speed up and be coherent :-) hurrah!!!

Boy have I missed just sitting down in a room listening to wonderful music surrounding me :D
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#24 Re: Sonido SWR-145/a Satellite speakers

Post by Paul Barker »

cool
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#25 Re: Sonido SWR-145/a Satellite speakers

Post by IslandPink »

Good effort James - sounds excellent.
Can you do a sketch at some point just to illustrate what you described re. the best source/splitting combination ? This stuff is always of great interest.
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#26 Re: Sonido SWR-145/a Satellite speakers

Post by simon »

Very nice James, an impressive performance from the Sonidos for you even to be talking about them in the same company as the AERs.

FWIW I tap off to the 285GMF amps after the valve amp volume pot so essentially the same as you I think with the amps in parallel. Works well for me too.
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#27 Re: Sonido SWR-145/a Satellite speakers

Post by JamesD »

In discussing the performance of the speakers with my sons, I realised that they didn't fully understand what I meant when I said that the speakers were fast and with quick transients. They thought I meant that the music was subjectively speedier... and that's not the result of fast speakers and quick transients. What I meant was that the music has more time space in it as notes start and stop without any overhang and the fundamental and harmonics of a note all line up time-wise so there is more coherence to the sound as less timeline confusion results. Often a piece of music feels slower paced than on a 'slower system' as their is subjectively more space in the music between the notes...

Hope that makes it clearer what I am experiencing with the Sonidos and sub-woofer now they are aligned properly.
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#28 Re: Sonido SWR-145/a Satellite speakers

Post by JamesD »

Things are going really slowly... life keeps getting in the way :D

Finally swopped the Neofanes into the open baffles and it's helped define how good the Sonido's are... The Neofanes have good tone but seem closed in and lack air compared to the 145s They are not as open, detailed or have as good tone as the Sonido's so back in the box they go and the Alpair 12s go in next...
Neofane.jpg
Neofane.jpg (11.35 KiB) Viewed 8628 times
The Sonidos lack the last bit of high frequency response in that the very top is a little recessed so it misses a little shimmer but other than that I am very impressed - especially at the price...

The Neofanes will become TV speakers with a 12" JBL as sub-woofer and a chip amp to drive them...

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#29 Re: Sonido SWR-145/a Satellite speakers

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Quick post to complete the comparisons I said I would do... I put the Alpair 12s (original metal cone beasties - not the Mk3 or paper cones) - Interesting but not very interesting - about half way between the Neofanes and the Sonidos in all terms really - strong family resemblance to the Neofanes in sound character but notably better in every way. Stronger bottom end than the Sonidos when run full range but as I'm using them with sub-woofer and crossing over at around 150Hz this isn't an advantage as the Sonidos have better tone for acoustic guitar, cello and piano - and yes I have heard all three instruments played in my room although that is an upright piano against a recorded Grand... so there is a real reference. Note decay was better on the Sonido too - interesting that the Neofane definitely truncates the tail of notes dying away but that might just be its general lack of clarity and detail showing up here...

So to my relief the Sonidos have justified their place and now I have to build the sealed cabs for them as all this testing was done open baffled...

Oh and build the amps - I think I have all the parts now and a base to build it on....
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#30 Re: Sonido SWR-145/a Satellite speakers

Post by simon »

Nice. Sounds like they're a very fine wide band driver when used with a bass helper and possibly a supertweeter from comments you made previously?

At the price there aren't too many alternatives perhaps. How would you say they compared to Fostex 208eZ? There's an annoying zing around 2k to 3k Hz that bugs me a little, maybe the Sonidos are an option?

And you're thinking sealed rather than OB? Is that a size constraint/frequency rolloff thing, or something else?
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