Some thoughts on Vitamin D, flu, etc

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Nick
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#16 Re: Some thoughts on Vitamin D, flu, etc

Post by Nick »

Looks like the NHS agrees with Mark.

https://www.nhs.uk/news/food-and-diet/t ... d-to-know/
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#17 Re: Some thoughts on Vitamin D, flu, etc

Post by Ray P »

Nick wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2020 5:33 pm Looks like the NHS agrees with Mark.
Not sure it does. Mark was suggesting a direct correlation between low Vitamin D and people being susceptible to colds and flu but the quick skim of the NHS article didn't seem to support that assertion.

The NHS article is just saying that a Vitamin D supplement is sensible because it is required for our general health and well being, especially with regard to bone strength and the like, but we are unable to make it ourselves (we're very unusual, if not unique, in the animal world in not being able to make our own Vitamin D) as our primary source is sunshine of which there is too little at higher latitudes in winter. I'm not challenging the advice offered in the NHS article, just the correlation Mark is suggesting; if the majority of the population don't get enough Vitamin D in winter but only a minority of the population get's flu you could make an argument that not having enough Vitamin D reduces the risk of you getting Flu.

Being able to get enough Vitamin D was one of the primary evolutionary drivers for people to have paler skin as you go further north (or south).
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#18 Re: Some thoughts on Vitamin D, flu, etc

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Yes, but the NHS/PHE pages suggest that there is evidence that there may be a causal link between lack of vitamin D and respiratory tract infections.

https://www.nhs.uk/news/food-and-diet/a ... esearchers

I have no dog in this race, I just had a quick look to see if I could find any articles that had links to peer reviewed papers instead of "someone on the internet said"

https://www.bmj.com/content/356/bmj.i6583
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#19 Re: Some thoughts on Vitamin D, flu, etc

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Ray P wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:03 pm .... just the correlation Mark is suggesting; if the majority of the population don't get enough Vitamin D in winter but only a minority of the population get's flu you could make an argument that not having enough Vitamin D reduces the risk of you getting Flu.
I really don't see how the logic works on that one.
For starters flu mainly occurs in the winter in all countries where it's prevalent - that should a big point in favour of looking into Vit D as a connection.
We all know that there's a big random factor in whether you get colds or flu, depending on your level of exposure.
Ray P wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:03 pm Being able to get enough Vitamin D was one of the primary evolutionary drivers for people to have paler skin as you go further north (or south).
Yes indeed. Bear in mind also that I read a paper from an palaeontology conference where the catching of Herring was cited as one of the key factors allowing humans to spread into Scandinavia.
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#20 Re: Some thoughts on Vitamin D, flu, etc

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Paul Barker wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:53 am You count your money, if you have enough take vitamin D. With supplements in general, if your diet is healthy you’re probably spending pointlessly. Healthy body fed right makes what it needs.
It's still a very prevalent idea that everyone can be healthy just eating a balanced diet. Doctors still quote this ; but they are surrounded by evidence to the contrary. People are always coming in with anaemia and being prescribed iron. I was deficient in iron for 2 or 3 years in the early 90's , it ruined my cycling career. Then you have women ( eg. my mother ) deficient in folic acid. In my mother's case despite eating a good healthy diet, and taking b-vitamin supplements !

In ( Drs. ) Davies and Stewart's book 'Nutritional Medicine' from 1987 they have pages of references to studies either showing various groups of the population being deficient in various nutrient, or to studies showing improvement or resolution of problems due to selected supplement intervention. These are al papers from respected journals.
My cousin is a consultant psychiatrist. She has made a point of testing many of her patients for B-vitamin levels - she said nearly all were deficient in one or more B-vitamins, mainly B3 or B6.

Bear in mind people are very rarely tested by a GP for vitamin D levels. I had to pay for my own test via Medichecks. The two guys at work who turned out to be deficient also paid for their own tests.
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#21 Re: Some thoughts on Vitamin D, flu, etc

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IslandPink wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2020 7:58 pm I really don't see how the logic works on that one.
For any given condition, in this case low Vitamin D, if more people don't get flu than do then that condition must be inhibiting flu mustn't it? Of course not but it's only your assertion turned around.
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#22 Re: Some thoughts on Vitamin D, flu, etc

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IslandPink wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:11 pm My cousin is a consultant psychiatrist. She has made a point of testing many of her patients for B-vitamin levels - she said nearly all were deficient in one or more B-vitamins, mainly B3 or B6.
As a standalone comment, this makes no sense at all. Where's the control group? What about levels in the general population?
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#23 Re: Some thoughts on Vitamin D, flu, etc

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I offered the original advice to Steve in a generous way, on the basis that some people could benefit in the winter months from taking it , as it's likely to prevent Flu. I had put in the time over several years to understand this, it was one of the key things that helped me get over my breakdown in 2007.
I didn't expect to be treated as if I was in a courtroom under cross-examination. To be honest I think I'll just fuck off and leave you to your own devices, it was appears to have been a waste of my time.
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#24 Re: Some thoughts on Vitamin D, flu, etc

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Apologies if I've instigated hurt for you Mark with my original challenge - it wasn't my intention.
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#25 Re: Some thoughts on Vitamin D, flu, etc

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Don’t be put off, Mark. I’m with you albeit I can’t evidence it, but sometimes personal speculative circumstance is good enough.
I take Vit D supplement and also invested this year £10 in the Flu vaccine. To date, since the autumn and unusually, I’ve not had a cough, cold, sore throat or anything other than a little mild sinusitis. Very different from previous years. Furthermore I have recently been in very close contact (inside mini buses, buses and aircraft) with many people all suffering from the seasonal ills. Nothing has hit me yet. Most of my mates, however have suffered more badly than usual this year and as they say, there’s a lot of it about.

Nothing scientific. Maybe I’ve just been lucky (so far). Suffice to say, I’ll be having the flu jab and taking Vit D sup from Sept next year (stop end of March this year).

Also, for last few winters, have suffered from small areas of eczema on my feet which Normal treatment, hydrocortisone struggles to heal. Always goes away in the summer. After taking Vit D healing of this is much improved and under control. You can overdose on Vit D, but keep it at or below 25 ug and all should be fine.
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#26 Re: Some thoughts on Vitamin D, flu, etc

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Sorry, I was having a bad day yesterday.
Nick ( Jack ) by 'control group' , do you mean 'how is the normal healthy range set' ?
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#27 Re: Some thoughts on Vitamin D, flu, etc

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Greg wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:51 pm
and also invested this year £10 in the Flu vaccine.
I'd forgotten how young you are Greg. :)
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#28 Re: Some thoughts on Vitamin D, flu, etc

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Nick wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:28 pm
I have no dog in this race, I just had a quick look to see if I could find any articles that had links to peer reviewed papers instead of "someone on the internet said"

https://www.bmj.com/content/356/bmj.i6583
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#29 Re: Some thoughts on Vitamin D, flu, etc

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pre65 wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:20 am
Greg wrote: Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:51 pm
and also invested this year £10 in the Flu vaccine.
I'd forgotten how young you are Greg. :)
Being my wife’s registered carer I’m offered (both of us) are offered free flu jab every year.

Because it’s always given me a horrendous illness that last much longer than the common cold I refuse it and feel much better all winter than when I’ve had it. Wife refuses it as well.
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#30 Re: Some thoughts on Vitamin D, flu, etc

Post by andrew Ivimey »

Do you think the NHS would offer/ encourage/ press on ( staff) if they didnt think it beneficial) Check out peer reviewed studies ( British Medical ( association) Journal for example...

Anecdotally then I've had a flu jab every year for 20 years. It began with my vulberability ( seriously bad car smash) and then it was free as I worked with vulnerable children and the OAPs. Now I'm OAP I get it free anyway and I'm delighted.... I haven't had flu and I believe, as my body doesn't have to worry about this invasion it has more resources to deal with colds and say, norovirus- very popular!

If I get a cold once a year it's not more often. I did get flu, real flu, in my teens and nearly died.

There seems to be a lot of weird little things that pass through and around me. I dont feel fit and well everyday.

However I am not statistically significant and fully realise that we all have varying beliefs.
Philosophers have only interpreted the world - the point, however, is to change it. No it isn't ... maybe we should leave it alone for a while.
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