Phono bake-off

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Bigman80
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#631 Re: Phono bake-off

Post by Bigman80 »

Ok, so I've tried to read the whole thread but find myself being too distracted by some of the less informative posts!!!

Is there a plan for another Bake Off and if so is it going to be at MCRU?
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mainscablesrus
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#632 Re: Phono bake-off

Post by mainscablesrus »

Bigman80 wrote: Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:21 pm Ok, so I've tried to read the whole thread but find myself being too distracted by some of the less informative posts!!!

Is there a plan for another Bake Off and if so is it going to be at MCRU?
My door is always open.

I plan another get together early August.

It can be phono stages but cannot see why it's needed now as others with an agenda seem to want to prove to each other their dick is bigger for some reason!

The most hilarious thing of all is NO ONE on this forum would buy a phono stage anyway they all build their own!

There were clear differences in sound on each phono we heard at the first meeting, if attendees want to bring a stage with them next time all is good.
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Bigman80
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#633 Re: Phono bake-off

Post by Bigman80 »

It can be phono stages but cannot see why it's needed now as others with an agenda seem to want to prove to each other their dick is bigger for some reason!

The most hilarious thing of all is NO ONE on this forum would buy a phono stage anyway they all build their own!

:arrow:

That's actually a really good point you make.
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Dr Bunsen Honeydew
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#634 Re: Phono bake-off

Post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

Dave - Its nothing to do with that as you readily know. I couldn't give a toss who's dick is bigger what I object to is the people scared to have it measured. If you remember the whole point was because Firebottle was avoiding it deliberately which was dishonest to his customers and the market.

All I want is honesty and couldn't give a toss who wins, well of course I would like it to be nva but that is not the point - the point is the process which is what you agreed to provide - so now you withdraw this.

I would like to see honest all comers bake-off on all hi-fi subjects it is what the industry needs and I am willing to provide product for any event honestly run, others aren't!

And now you see Firebottle's head shill laying the path to get out of it again.
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The Stratmangler
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#635 Re: Phono bake-off

Post by The Stratmangler »

Dr Bunsen Honeydew wrote: Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:21 pm I couldn't give a toss who's dick is bigger what I object to is the people scared to have it measured. If you remember the whole point was because Firebottle was avoiding it deliberately which was dishonest to his customers and the market.
Who fucking well cares?
There seems to be you, and er .... nobody else :roll:
Chris :happy3:
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#636 Re: Phono bake-off

Post by Bigman80 »

Dr Bunsen Honeydew wrote: Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:21 pm Its nothing to do with that as you readily know. I couldn't give a toss who's dick is bigger what I object to is the people scared to have it measured. If you remember the whole point was because Firebottle was avoiding it deliberately which was dishonest to his customers and the market.

All I want is honesty and couldn't give a toss who wins, well of course I would like it to be nva but that is not the point - the point is the process which is what you agreed to provide - so now you withdraw this.

I would like to see honest all comers bake-off on all hi-fi subjects it is what the industry needs and I am willing to provide product for any event honestly run, others aren't!

And now you see Firebottle's head shill laying the path to get out of it again.

Well, Dr.

If we are talking about honesty, why not answer the PM i have sent you? I also would like to point out that simply agreeing with someone's thoughts is perfectly natural and quite common. I understand you may be slightly alien to that concept.

This phrase you like to throw around about being a "shill" is completely disrespectful too. I am involved with Alan's R&D. He designs the gear, constructs the gear and i listen to it to see if it sounds right. IE realism. As a seasoned musician, its very valuable to have the knowledge, i have, on how something should sound. Alan has spent weeks adjusting his OTP circuit because i felt the Maraca on a record didn't sound real enough! That shows his level of devotion to his work, in my opinion.

I am very complimentary about his gear because, to my ears, it sounds "right".

I haven't ever stated that your NVA gear is inferior because i have never heard it. In-fact, i have never had an opinion on you or anything you have made because i haven't heard it. I have also never been anything but honest in my opinions about anything i have heard. This may be controversial but honesty does hurt sometimes.

You seem to be quite the Hypocrite. I notice on your forum that anyone can pop up and "promote" their "honest feedback" and its welcomed with open arms. No shills there though.

Your frequent attacks and name calling are an attempt to sully the name of anyone who may hear your equipment and not be complimentary about it. You are laying the groundwork to discredit their opinion, which is very sad and shows a complete lack of faith in your own products.

Here's an offer for you, send me any one of your products and i'll give you my honest opinion, without prejudice and if you wish i will only feedback to you privately. I purchased a Firebottle OTP MK2 which costs £300, so send me your equivalently priced phono stage if you wish.
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mainscablesrus
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#637 Re: Phono bake-off

Post by mainscablesrus »

Easier to go back to the original plan I will assemble a panel and we will listen to Firebottle and NVA kit, easiest option if people are that desperate to have it compared. Nick and myself are due to meet up soon anyway to audition something far more important!

If Mr Bottle and RD send their kit to me or I will arrange pick up. First week in August.

No more pathetic ramblings please I think both parties already agreed to the above previously so put up and shut up now. :D
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#638 Re: Phono bake-off

Post by Ray P »

Dr Bunsen Honeydew wrote: Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:21 pmIf you remember the whole point was because Firebottle was avoiding it deliberately which was dishonest to his customers and the market.
In your opinion. Just get over it FFS.
Dr Bunsen Honeydew wrote: Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:21 pm...couldn't give a toss who wins, well of course I would like it to be nva but that is not the point....
I think that's a lie. Of course that's the point and of course you give a toss; you're just perpetuating this because of your ego and because you have product to sell. Pushing the line that other vendors are afraid to go toe to toe with you fits the image of NVA that you peddle.
Sorry, I couldn't resist!
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Dr Bunsen Honeydew
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#639 Re: Phono bake-off

Post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

Bigman80 wrote: Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:52 pm
Dr Bunsen Honeydew wrote: Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:21 pm Its nothing to do with that as you readily know. I couldn't give a toss who's dick is bigger what I object to is the people scared to have it measured. If you remember the whole point was because Firebottle was avoiding it deliberately which was dishonest to his customers and the market.

All I want is honesty and couldn't give a toss who wins, well of course I would like it to be nva but that is not the point - the point is the process which is what you agreed to provide - so now you withdraw this.

I would like to see honest all comers bake-off on all hi-fi subjects it is what the industry needs and I am willing to provide product for any event honestly run, others aren't!

And now you see Firebottle's head shill laying the path to get out of it again.

Well, Dr.

If we are talking about honesty, why not answer the PM i have sent you? I also would like to point out that simply agreeing with someone's thoughts is perfectly natural and quite common. I understand you may be slightly alien to that concept.

This phrase you like to throw around about being a "shill" is completely disrespectful too. I am involved with Alan's R&D. He designs the gear, constructs the gear and i listen to it to see if it sounds right. IE realism. As a seasoned musician, its very valuable to have the knowledge, i have, on how something should sound. Alan has spent weeks adjusting his OTP circuit because i felt the Maraca on a record didn't sound real enough! That shows his level of devotion to his work, in my opinion.

I am very complimentary about his gear because, to my ears, it sounds "right".

I haven't ever stated that your NVA gear is inferior because i have never heard it. In-fact, i have never had an opinion on you or anything you have made because i haven't heard it. I have also never been anything but honest in my opinions about anything i have heard. This may be controversial but honesty does hurt sometimes.

You seem to be quite the Hypocrite. I notice on your forum that anyone can pop up and "promote" their "honest feedback" and its welcomed with open arms. No shills there though.

Your frequent attacks and name calling are an attempt to sully the name of anyone who may hear your equipment and not be complimentary about it. You are laying the groundwork to discredit their opinion, which is very sad and shows a complete lack of faith in your own products.

Here's an offer for you, send me any one of your products and i'll give you my honest opinion, without prejudice and if you wish i will only feedback to you privately. I purchased a Firebottle OTP MK2 which costs £300, so send me your equivalently priced phono stage if you wish.
Definition of a shill.

A shill, also called a plant or a stooge, is a person who publicly helps or gives credibility to a person or organization without disclosing that they have a close relationship with the person or organization. Shills can carry out their operations in the areas of media, journalism, marketing, confidence games, or other business areas. A shill may also act to discredit opponents or critics of the person or organization in which they have a vested interest through character assassination or other means.
In most uses, shill refers to someone who purposely gives onlookers, participants or "marks" the impression of an enthusiastic customer independent of the seller, marketer or con artist, for whom they are secretly working. The person or group in league with the shill relies on crowd psychology to encourage other onlookers or audience members to do business with the seller or accept the ideas they are promoting. Shills may be employed by salespeople and professional marketing campaigns. Plant and stooge more commonly refer to a person who is secretly in league with another person or outside organization while pretending to be neutral or a part of the organization in which they are planted, such as a magician's audience, a political party, or an intelligence organization (see double agent).
Shilling is illegal in many circumstances and in many jurisdictions because of the potential for fraud and damage; however, if a shill does not place uninformed parties at a risk of loss, but merely generates "buzz," the shill's actions may be legal. For example, a person planted in an audience to laugh and applaud when desired (see claque), or to participate in on-stage activities as a "random member of the audience," is a type of legal shill.[citation needed] Shill can also be used pejoratively to describe a critic who appears either all-too-eager to heap glowing praise upon mediocre offerings, or who acts as an apologist for glaring flaws.

With your above post you have in fact admitted to being a shill for him, but by now making it open and admitting you are part of the organisation, even if unpaid in favours and discounts (which I doubt) that would make you promoted to a spammer - well done on your promotion.

Members will watch and make their own judgements. I have been watching you since you emerged at AoS as have other HFS members with amusement. BTW I have zero desire to have private conversation with you, and not sure I want public one so we will play it by ear.

To be honest all I want is to have Firebottle's phono stage and nva phono stage compared in a bake-off with independent people making the judgement, and I have trying for it for nearly 3 years since he appeared spamming at AoS, and he has avoided it. Including one event sabotaged to make sure it didn't happen. That is the only reason it has become important to me, as the process of avoiding it has irritated me to the point I now pursue any avenue I can to make it happen.
Last edited by Dr Bunsen Honeydew on Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Stratmangler
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#640 Re: Phono bake-off

Post by The Stratmangler »

Give me the keys, Nick.
Chris :happy3:
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pre65
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#641 Re: Phono bake-off

Post by pre65 »

The Stratmangler wrote: Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:09 pm Give me the keys, Nick.
Probably needs to be someone less prone to abusive outbursts. :(
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The Stratmangler
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#642 Re: Phono bake-off

Post by The Stratmangler »

pre65 wrote: Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:13 pm
The Stratmangler wrote: Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:09 pm Give me the keys, Nick.
Probably needs to be someone less prone to abusive outbursts. :(
Fine.
Just wallow in your own world of shit.
I'm out of here.
Delete my account please, Nick, I have had enough.
Chris :happy3:
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#643 Re: Phono bake-off

Post by Bigman80 »

Definition of a shill.

A shill, also called a plant or a stooge, is a person who publicly helps or gives credibility to a person or organization without disclosing that they have a close relationship with the person or organization. Shills can carry out their operations in the areas of media, journalism, marketing, confidence games, or other business areas. A shill may also act to discredit opponents or critics of the person or organization in which they have a vested interest through character assassination or other means.
In most uses, shill refers to someone who purposely gives onlookers, participants or "marks" the impression of an enthusiastic customer independent of the seller, marketer or con artist, for whom they are secretly working. The person or group in league with the shill relies on crowd psychology to encourage other onlookers or audience members to do business with the seller or accept the ideas they are promoting. Shills may be employed by salespeople and professional marketing campaigns. Plant and stooge more commonly refer to a person who is secretly in league with another person or outside organization while pretending to be neutral or a part of the organization in which they are planted, such as a magician's audience, a political party, or an intelligence organization (see double agent).
Shilling is illegal in many circumstances and in many jurisdictions because of the potential for fraud and damage; however, if a shill does not place uninformed parties at a risk of loss, but merely generates "buzz," the shill's actions may be legal. For example, a person planted in an audience to laugh and applaud when desired (see claque), or to participate in on-stage activities as a "random member of the audience," is a type of legal shill.[citation needed] Shill can also be used pejoratively to describe a critic who appears either all-too-eager to heap glowing praise upon mediocre offerings, or who acts as an apologist for glaring flaws.

With your above post you have in fact admitted to being a shill for him, but by now making it open and admitting you are part of the organisation, even if unpaid in favours and discounts (which I doubt) that would make you promoted to a spammer - well done on your promotion.

Members will watch and make their own judgements. I have been watching you since you emerged at AoS as have other HFS members with amusement. BTW I have zero desire to have private conversation with you, and not sure I want public one so we will play it by ear.

To be honest all I want is to have Firebottle's phono stage and nva phono stage compared in a bake-off with independent people making the judgement, and I have trying for it for nearly 3 years since he appeared spamming at AoS, and he has avoided it. Including one event sabotaged to make sure it didn't happen. That is the only reason it has become important to me, as the process of avoiding it has irritated me to the point I now pursue any avenue I can to make it happen.
[/quote]

More disrespectful spiel, what a surprise!

It has never been a secret that i have been helping Alan develop the FB-OTP, it seems it was only you and your cronies at HFS that was unaware. I have never lead anyone into purchasing anything. I haven't admitted being a shill or a spammer at all, this is your belief and personally i think your'e beliefs are imbecilic. To suggest i exist on a forum to sell Firebottle products is incredibly imbecilic. I haven't been place anywhere to do anything.

I have been open and honest throughout my time on any HIFI forum. My intentions are clear. If your gear impress me, i will say so and recommend it. If that upsets you then feel free to be upset.

It's also very convenient that you don't want to reply to my private message, Maybe that's because you can't answer it without looking like a liar? Maybe i should post it publicly?

I also seem to recall it was YOU that didn't show at the latest meet. You seem to have selective memory to go with your siege mentality.

May i also point out that you engaged in a public conversation with me at the very first opportunity. So more contradiction. This is fact and this has proof available.


If you want to pit your stage against the Firebottle, why not ask like a gentleman rather than spewing vitriol and bile across the internet? I can make this happen, using my Shill/spammer/slurper/minion status :roll: I am happy to host you both and just do it between us, at a neutral venue that i will pay to hire. But, you will decline that invite too because you don't really want it to happen.
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#644 Re: Phono bake-off

Post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

Who will be the impartial observers and reporters. Can you find an AoS-er who will provide a Arkless as well, if so you are on.

I hate PM's if it is about the subject. PM should only be to arrange things not have behind the hand chats. If it is on th topic then publish publicly. In fact I am known for publishing daft PMs and emails as for me it all should be public. I will do it for you.

I suppose i have to repeat the truth again. People were dropping out of the Bake-Off and Firey refused to come, so I saw no point. He then of course signed up to go as long as I wasn't told or invited back. As it turned out I couldn't go anyway, as most people know I have lung cancer and I am subject to bad lung infections which get me about three times a year. Every time I have to go to hospital for at least a day for tests and antibiotic drips, this was one of those.

The PM.

Clarification

Sent: Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:50 pm
From: Bigman80
Recipient: Dr Bunsen Honeydew

Good evening, Dr.

I was wondering if you could clarify a statement you have recently made?

"Firebottle and Bigaman80 will now try to muddy the waters to stop nva being there, as they have done in the past. Not sure how they can pull out now, but if I am not banned from going they will try to find a way"

Could you elaborate on how I have muddied any water for you or demonstrate how I've ever had any negativity towards you or your NVA products.

Also, what am I backing out from? I haven't been asked to go anywhere or do anything.

Regards,

Oliver
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#645 Re: Phono bake-off

Post by Bigman80 »

Why do you need impartial observers if your only prerequisite was to hear your NVA products against the Firebottle gear? Indicating you want an Arkless is another "get out of jail" card because you already know he won't participate. You didn't mention the Arkless just! Also, Those Impartial observers would only be labelled as Shillers/spammers/slurpers etc should the result not go the way you would like.

"To be honest all I want is to have Firebottle's phono stage and nva phono stage compared in a bake-off"

Bullshit and bluster will not suffice Mr Dunn. I have offered you the chance to pit your NVA gear up against the Firebottle gear in a neutral venue so you, yourself can hear how it compares because : "To be honest all I want is to have Firebottle's phono stage and nva phono stage compared in a bake-off"

You are either in or out.

As for the private message i sent out to you,

Why not address it in its entirety now its in the public fora?
lies.JPG

Shilling or Spamming? From a few simple google searches its quite easy to find reoccurring people recommending your products on various forums. No wonder you are such an expert on Shilling and spamming. You're doing it yourself!!!
Last edited by Bigman80 on Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:02 am, edited 4 times in total.
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