Tesla.

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Nick
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#76 Re: Tesla.

Post by Nick »

I think I'd like an electric car, and for 90% of my needs,
If you are anything like me now, how many miles can you drive between piss breaks?
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pre65
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#77 Re: Tesla.

Post by pre65 »

Nick wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 11:45 am
I think I'd like an electric car, and for 90% of my needs,
If you are anything like me now, how many miles can you drive between piss breaks?
My worst time is for 3 hours after taking one of my blood pressure pills, I could pee for England. :lol:

Other than that, I can normally make the 180 mile journey to Oakenshaw in 3 hours without stopping.

But, you see, 180 miles in most EVs is not a problem, but if you factor in road closures/diversions, winter conditions with heater, lights,radio,heated seats etc etc I'd be scared (literally)

The worst journey we had was when A1 & M1 were closed and it took 5 hours to get there.

Normally we set of with a full tank of diesel from home and top up before we return so I know, whatever happens, we can't run out of fuel.
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#78 Re: Tesla.

Post by steve s »

Nick wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 11:02 am

Says the man with a house full of old British valves :-)

I know i know.... but I never stop being amazed how good they sound and what a fine investment so far 😃

I can imagine in 30 years time the electric cars of today become collectable,( like old mobile phones now) and the modern battery of the future will transform them !
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#79 Re: Tesla.

Post by Nick »

but if you factor in road closures/diversions, winter conditions with heater, lights,radio,heated seats etc etc I'd be scared (literally)
Yep, I get that, but I don't know how long a EV will run the heating on its own, Would have thought it would be a long time assuming you keep the windows closed. Lights (LED) will take very little, and radio nothing I would have thought. In those conditions I would worry about a ICE car overheating more than anything. That's what I see by the side of the road more often than not in those conditions.
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#80 Re: Tesla.

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so I know, whatever happens, we can't run out of fuel.
No, but lots of other things can go wrong, but as you are used to them you don't worry about them.

I am not suggesting that EV's are perfect and wont improve, they will, just arguing the other side. The BMW has gone to the part heap in the sky now (needed £500 spending on it and I was offered £300 for it as parts) so when I am not working at home (in reality I can be just as productive here as there) I will need to sort something out. For me if I was buying new, an EV would be the only choice, but the world is full of low cost low mileage 3 series at the moment.
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#81 Re: Tesla.

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Nick wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 12:35 pm
so I know, whatever happens, we can't run out of fuel.
No, but lots of other things can go wrong, but as you are used to them you don't worry about them.

As I'm an AA member, breakdowns are not a worry, but I'm not aware what the AA & RAC policy would be if EVs run out of charge miles from a charging point ?
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#82 Re: Tesla.

Post by Nick »

https://www.theaa.com/breakdown-cover/electric-cars

"Battery run out? We'll tow you to a charging point or your destination – whichever's nearer."
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#83 Re: Tesla.

Post by vinylnvalves »

Been hanging back on this argument :wink: A few years back in Paris my eyes were opened to electric cars.. most of the taxi cars were Tesla’s I asked how you justify it.. the taxi driver told me the massive tax for running a polluting car in Paris - meant the car was paid for in less than 5 years. I almost bought one when I got back it was £26k 3 years old... the battery put me off. A year later secondhand cost of Tesla’s doubled... why the batteries are now leased, same as all the other major car manufacturers. I am waiting on the next generation of electric cars designed as electric cars not a cars with an electric motor in them. Next generation will drive with 4 motors one in each corner, which cuts out transmission losses and allows for regenerative breaking. Regenerative breaking allows for a bigger range without new battery technology. The drive train losses but by 10% too so every little helps. We have been looking at electric drives in aero engines too, as it allows for better cycle matching across the engine. As in aerospace drive train efficiency is king, we have the most efficient reduction gearbox, but even with less than 1% losses we still generate 100’s of kW’s of waste heat.
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#84 Re: Tesla.

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why the batteries are now leased, same as all the other major car manufacturers.
AFAIK, Tesla don't lease batteries.
Next generation will drive with 4 motors one in each corner, which cuts out transmission losses and allows for regenerative breaking.
And for interesting torque vectoring, looking to see where the Taycan in particular takes that.
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#85 Re: Tesla.

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Nick wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:43 pm
why the batteries are now leased, same as all the other major car manufacturers.
AFAIK, Tesla don't lease batteries.
I don't think Renault do either.
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#86 Re: Tesla.

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Nick wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 12:54 pm https://www.theaa.com/breakdown-cover/electric-cars

"Battery run out? We'll tow you to a charging point or your destination – whichever's nearer."
I don’t know about all EV’s but Teslas cannot be towed in the conventional way. It is either a full lift on a flatbed or the use of wheel lift and dollies.
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#87 Re: Tesla.

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#88 Re: Tesla.

Post by vinylnvalves »

Strange about the Tesla batteries.. that was the reason I was given for the 100% price hike. The Renault Zoe I am sure does as I work with someone who has one. My experience is generally limited to company cars when it comes to EV. The E golf is rubbish we had to add 2hrs onto a work trip a 300 mile round trip a stop at Newport Pagnell on the way down and the way back.
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#89 Re: Tesla.

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"Renault has ditched the option of monthly battery leasing for its electric Zoe, citing “significantly improved class-leading residual values, which enable a more competitive full purchase price”. The Zoe has a predicted residual value of 42%, according to CAP, after three years and 36,000 miles."
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#90 Re: Tesla.

Post by Thermionic Idler »

Paul Barker wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:12 am Those adverts for (non plug in hybrids) I’m mystified what sort of fool would buy one of those. So the internal combustion hydrocarbon engine is generating electricity, which produces less power (50%) probably than you would have had if you just had the internal combustion engine..... oxymoron! Wheres the benefit to the ozone layer from making the burning of hydrocarbons less productive by using the inefficiency of converting it to electricity first?
I'll bite - this fool has been running hybrids since 2010 :D This was my experience.

I bought my Prius at a time when I was doing 400 miles a week commute and I was fed up of putting so much money into the petrol tank each week. I had a budget of up to £20k, I wanted 50mpg plus, it had to not be tiny, and it had to be automatic. All the diesels I looked at were manual only, so I bought the Prius on the basis that it was the only option that ticked all those boxes, the fact it had a unique drive system was secondary really.

Then I watched smugly as dieselgate came and went, and tales of woe from my diesel-driving work colleagues of nightmare reliability, expensive servicing, DPF's having to be unblocked, etc etc. Meanwhile, I was getting a consistent 52mpg in the winter and over 60mpg in the summer - over my target - with none of these issues. And that included fast road driving.

Now a normal petrol engine of similar size could probably return those figures on its own... if you could leave your house and drive a constant 40 - 60mph to your destination without stopping. However, it's all the stop-start of real-world traffic that makes internal combustion engines on their own so inefficient. What the hybrid sytem does is give the ICE an environment in which it can operate efficiently much more of the time. I find that most of the time at slow speeds, it's not running at all. Inching forward in traffic just requires a few watts of electricity.

Also the engine is an Atkinson cycle as opposed to Otto cycle - I'm unsure of the difference, but I do know that it's more efficient with the trade-off that it can't move the car from a standing start on its own, which of course it doesn't need to if you have the electric motor. I think it must be the Atkinson vs Otto cycle factor that means you still get good economy at higher speeds, although i will grant that diesel has the edge here. And the regenerative braking means you claw back a surprising amount of energy that is otherwise wasted.

I found that the cost to maintain it was a fraction of what the BMW used to cost me, and way less than most diesels. Problems and issues? Nada, nil, zilch. In 118,000 miles and 8 years, I didn't have a single problem. The regenerative braking had another side benefit - I got 90,000 miles out of a set of discs and pads. Things a hybrid doesn't need: starter motor, clutch, alternator, big heavy gearbox (the gearing is a simple planetary gearset which does the power split between ICE and motor - there are diagrams on the 'net for how it works). Toyota hybrids are mechanically bulletproof - why do you think there are so many old Prius taxis around now? Taxi drivers know their shit.

Needless to say when we wanted something a bit more upmarket, I was absolutely going to stick with the Toyota-developed hybrid drive system. We got the Lexus IS300h in 2018 and still enjoy the same benefits, but with a whole lot more refinement and comfort. What I rather like is that it has 223 bhp, versus the Prius' 134 bhp, yet only does 6mpg less, we get a consistent 50mpg. And the emissions are a shade over 100 rather than a shade under, so we have had to start paying road tax again (£10 a year).
Last edited by Thermionic Idler on Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:28 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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