The Audio-Talk Motorcycling thread.

[Mike H]

For now!!

[Dave the bass]

Oh bum. I always fill up in Teeside.

I usually pick up a pint of milk and loaf of bread there too but find its usually gone off by the time I get back home (in Dirtfud).

[Mike H]

It's the time warp factor.

[Neal]

I was at the NEC classic car and bike show today. Flippin heck is it large, 5 halls stuffed with old codgers, old motor bikes, junk and rusting cars...boy was it great, I was in heaven.

[Mike H]

[Baggy Trousers]

Good info there Thomas! From the Esso website:

“Esso super unleaded petrol (Synergy Supreme+ Unleaded 97) is ethanol free (except in Devon, Cornwall, the Teesside area and Scotland). We would therefore advise anyone who has concerns about the presence of ethanol in petrol to use Synergy Supreme+ – providing they do not fill up in Devon or Cornwall, the Teesside area or Scotland.”

Esso, BP and Shell all claim their premium grades to be ethanol free but this is not always the case, nor is its distribution universal. The supply of a given fuel to petrol stations seems very random and one cannot be guaranteed to receive an ethanol-free product. And there is little point in asking the manager - he takes what the tanker delivers and has no interest in the chemical make-up.

Engine performance is hardly affected by the introduction of this pernicious stuff; octane ratings lowered by the presence of other ingredients are restored by the ethanol which is an octane enhancer. The main problem with this vegetable-based product is that it is seriously hygroscopic. This gives rise to three particular problems; firstly, as already has been mentioned, it generates accelerated corrosion in tanks and other ferrous containers if stored for any appreciable length of time. Secondly, it eats synthetic compounds like GRP and plastic fuel hoses. Thirdly, because it contains oxygen and water, it promotes the generation of bacterial matter and this manifests itself in the gunge which can be found in fuel lines and carburettors. I once had a throttle slide jam open, courtesy of this crap.

There are several tank lining products available and more ethanol-resistant components are appearing on the market quite regularly. In the old days, for winter storage, tanks were left either brim full and the breather closed, or drained completely and hermetically sealed. Now there is no point in leaving the tank full as the shelf life of current fuels is about six weeks. In any event, shutting off the fuel always has been the preferred method of stopping the engine - in the old days this was to prevent varnish deposits clogging jets and passages. Continuing the practice is just as necessary.

[Neal]

BP and She’ll don’t, they give no categorical assurance their premium fuels contain no ethanol. The closest claim is the one quoted from Esso. However this is all mute as E10 fuel will be introduced at some point and while E5 may be tolerable in some classic cars and bikes E10 will cause issues. Corrosion aside ethanol contains oxygen weakening the mixture causing a later burn which raises exhaust temperatures with the potential to burn valve seats. It it way more volatile than none ethanol fuel and will vaporise in the carb jet at prevoiusly tolerable underbonnet temperatures weakening the mixture further. There’s a very bright chap on the MG T type website who carried out extensive research in to this in controlled lab conditions, he found these issues and made some recommendations on how adjust your engine to cater for modern fuels.

I think these guys are the only people that guarantee their fuel is ethanol free. https://aaoil.co.uk/product/sunoco-opti ... -0-oxygen/

[thomas]

On the Moto Guzzi forums there are any number of stories about the plastic fuel tanks, which the newer V7 models had (but MG have latterly gone back to steel), swelling, to the extent that if you take the tank off, it won't go back on and the bolt holes won't line up!

Same with a lot of the 'noughties Triumphs, Mike. Lots of interweb pics of bubbled Daytona tanks, and I'm sure my ST sprint tank was starting to swell and distort just before I err sold it....

My petrol industry chum has told me that the Esso stuff will remain ethanol free for the 'foreseeable future' (ie even after the 10% stuff comes in) but it seems sensible to drain tank and carbs over winter, I might do that this year.

Incidentally I have a fairly posh dehumidifier going in my garage this time of year and I am staggered by the volume of water it sucks out of the air, (20l every couple of days...) I feel its a worthwhile investment to keep the bikes shiny.

I'd be very wary about lining a petrol tank btw, I suspect they could only ever be described as 'semi permanent'? (thinking of the original 'petseal' here....)

[Baggy Trousers]

On the Moto Guzzi forums there are any number of stories about the plastic fuel tanks, which the newer V7 models had (but MG have latterly gone back to steel), swelling, to the extent that if you take the tank off, it won't go back on and the bolt holes won't line up!

Same with a lot of the 'noughties Triumphs, Mike. Lots of interweb pics of bubbled Daytona tanks, and I'm sure my ST sprint tank was starting to swell and distort just before I err sold it....

My petrol industry chum has told me that the Esso stuff will remain ethanol free for the 'foreseeable future' (ie even after the 10% stuff comes in) but it seems sensible to drain tank and carbs over winter, I might do that this year.

Incidentally I have a fairly posh dehumidifier going in my garage this time of year and I am staggered by the volume of water it sucks out of the air, (20l every couple of days...) I feel its a worthwhile investment to keep the bikes shiny.

I'd be very wary about lining a petrol tank btw, I suspect they could only ever be described as 'semi permanent'? (thinking of the original 'petseal' here....)

From memory, Petseal was effective for sealing small levels of tank porosity and it was a well-regarded product at the time. However, it proved no match for the subsequent introduction of the dreaded ethanol - hence the problems. I have a steel tank coated nine years ago (not Petseal) which is still as sound as a bell but I don't doubt things will change when we are stuck with E10.

Sadly, Sunoco facilities are not commonly found.

[gninnam]

POR15 (from Frost) do a tank sealer - might be worth a look.

[Mike H]

Have heard (read) good things about POR15.

[Baggy Trousers]

Have heard (read) good things about POR15.

Por 15 is of American manufacture. They have had E5/10 in the States for years, so the stuff works!

[Dave the bass]

I've been busy with that Redditch Bullet project bike...

Stripped. Totally.


I've never been this far into an engine either, erks, learning as I go.

[IslandPink]

Oooh... is that a flywheel-stylee crankshaft ?

[Dave the bass]

I believe it termed a 'built-up crankshaft' in this example if thats what you mean? The big end bush and all bearings are fine thankfully. I've split the crankcases to clean out the horrible mucky oil that was living in the oil compartment.