Vacuum transistors ?

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steve s
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#1 Vacuum transistors ?

Post by steve s »

The tube manual is quite like a telephone book. The number of it perfect. It is useful to make it possible to speak with a girl. But we can't see her beautiful face from the telephone number
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#2 Re: Vacuum transistors ?

Post by ed »

veery interestink....

it does feel like back to the future...

there is also this, which has been talked about a bit of late:

http://korgnutube.com/en/

http://korgnutube.com/pdf/Nutube_DatasheetV1E.pdf

it seems even John Broskie thought back to the future:

http://www.tubecad.com/2015/01/blog0318.htm
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#3 Re: Vacuum transistors ?

Post by jack »

ed wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:28 am veery interestink....

it does feel like back to the future...

there is also this, which has been talked about a bit of late:

http://korgnutube.com/en/
...
Interesting indeed, though the Korg NuTube stuff from Noritake are simply VFDs - it's long been known that you can take a standard VFD display and use it as a rather poor low-mu DH triode - VFDs have exactly the same functional elements and similar structure to a DHT - AC heater (when used as a display, the heater in a VFD is almost always AC for obvious reasons), a grid, and an anode - the difference in the VFD is that the anode is shaped like part of a letter or symbol and is covered with phosphorous. There are loads of project on the www from folks making small amps or radios out of displays running of low voltages (VFDs run on very low voltages compared to DHTs).

So, the vacuum transistors are cool, but the Korg tubes are a bit of a gimmick, most likely because Noritake, who are the world leaders in making VFDs, need to find some other uses for their factories as people are switching to OLED and other technologies now. Not that they're likely to sell that many NuTubes...
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#4 Re: Vacuum transistors ?

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Afaiks the nutubes are aimed at being a source of distortion for instrument amps.
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andrew Ivimey
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#5 Re: Vacuum transistors ?

Post by andrew Ivimey »

'ssright - many moons ago a chum at Electro Harmonix noticed, whilst reading a data book on Cmos i.c.s. that a lowly quad nand gate actually looked like it could do just this. The idea that became EH's 'Hot Tubes' was born; a pre-amp to get the gain high, into the quad nand gate and a buffer stage that could mix the direct signal with the signal that had been changed/square wave'd by the nand gate. 'Cheap,cheerful and works' as EH's motto could have been.

Blimey, I think even I put a diode across the input and output of an op-amp to see what would come of half wave rectification of the signal but I was working on another project at the time so my heart wasn't in it. I had a couple of Bigg Muff Fuzz boxes anyway. The original transistor circuitry was the BEST!

But I digress.
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#6 Re: Vacuum transistors ?

Post by ed »

jack wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:27 pm
So, the vacuum transistors are cool, but the Korg tubes are a bit of a gimmick, most likely because Noritake, who are the world leaders in making VFDs, need to find some other uses for their factories as people are switching to OLED and other technologies now. Not that they're likely to sell that many NuTubes...
'bit of a gimmick' might be better introduced as your opinion, otherwise it seems to read as armchair critique.

It might be more interesting to see how this pans out:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pass-lab ... riode.html

I'll let the dust settle before I take the cynical line.

I mean what's not to like?:
http://www.voxamps.com/MV50

apologies Steve, I seem to have hijacked your thread...my bad!
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andrew Ivimey
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#7 Re: Vacuum transistors ?

Post by andrew Ivimey »

Just a thought...as far as all this amp modelling business goes which may be relevant...

I've played quite a lot of amps that claim to be 'modelling and a great many sound just like each other's versions if the great amps and cabs

I've got a line 6 monster which us a lot of fun with a huge library...

But a fender champ flat out or any other valve amp just sounds right where the models are just interesting at best and scratchy nasty digital at worst.

If I could really choose and was a gigging superstar I would use the old stuff.
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#8 Re: Vacuum transistors ?

Post by andrew Ivimey »

Just a thought...as far as all this amp modelling business goes which may be relevant...

I've played quite a lot of amps that claim to be 'modelling' and a great many sound just like each other's versions of the great amps and cabs

I've got a line 6 monster which is a lot of fun with a huge library...

But a fender champ flat out or any other valve amp just sounds right where the models are just interesting at best and scratchy nasty digital at worst.

If I could really choose and was a gigging superstar I would use the old stuff.
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#9 Re: Vacuum transistors ?

Post by ed »

continuing the OT shenanigins

I am in total agreement about the amp modelling stuff...I have a load of software plug ins in the studio and by and large they all sound much like you've described and mimic all the recent actual amps I've played with...

except...I had the very first variax model when they came out, IIRC it was a 500, with 50 or so guitar impersonations with amp combinations. It was awesome and really did sound like the stuff of legend.....The neck was not the best and I vacillated between putting a Warmoth neck on it or selling it...I sold it, big mistake!!..oh waily waily
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#10 Re: Vacuum transistors ?

Post by andrew Ivimey »

Aha...never gone there but I have wondered. Are they really any Good?
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#11 Re: Vacuum transistors ?

Post by Nick »

If I could really choose and was a gigging superstar I would use the old stuff.
That would remove you from the target market of the modelling amps though. The VOX modelling amp I used when playing at the blues jam night was just so useful, I only needed four of so good enough sounds, but to do the same with the originals would have taken four amps. And it also saved dragging a bunch of pedals that would have just got in the way.
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#12 Re: Vacuum transistors ?

Post by jack »

ed wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:12 pm 'bit of a gimmick' might be better introduced as your opinion, otherwise it seems to read as armchair critique.

It might be more interesting to see how this pans out:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pass-lab ... riode.html
Ok, perhaps "seems to be a bit of a gimmick". Pretty much everything on this forum is just someone's opinion, but prefixing every post with "I believe", "I think", "IMHO" etc. would just be tedious.

I have probably around 2,000 vfds of various types in stock at the moment, including large numbers of Noritake numeric and alphanumeric 1x24, 1x16, 2x16 etc. displays. About 12,000 valves in total of which over half are display devices.

Some years back, on the neonixie-l group (which I run) we did a lot of work on various types of vfds as triodes. Basically, they work but are not very good due mainly to the physical layout. They have very low mu and were highly non-linear.

You might ask why they've left the phosphor on the anodes of the nutubes? Won't affect the sound but, hey, it'll look cool.
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#13 Re: Vacuum transistors ?

Post by ed »

andrew Ivimey wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:04 pm Aha...never gone there but I have wondered. Are they really any Good?
I thought so...I'm not sure how they did it but it was possible to dial in any number of 1950s or 1960s epic guitars and get out a realistic impersonation. There were 50 or 60 different guitars. I recall reading in the manual that there was some sampling of originals involved.

I looked quite recently and it seems that all the current models have pickups. Now there's a novelty. From a studio perspective I was absolutely insane to sell it.

I'm not sure what the current models sound like but it's got to be on the list of things to do before, well, you know what I mean.
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#14 Re: Vacuum transistors ?

Post by andrew Ivimey »

Hmmmm if you don't like our thoughts and opinions.....

Anyway Temptation! My Line 6 monster defaults to four sounds only and although they can be diverse or subtly different they still sound artificial and digital if still some are great fun.

A Les Paul Tele or Strat e.g. feel so diffferent to play, well I dunno but I also revel in the differences.

Back in the days when I played live I more or less eyeballed the knob settings on the amp and had a fuzz n wah and more or less just got on with it. Who in the audience knew or cared between a Marshall / 4 by 12 or a fender twin reverb?
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#15 Re: Vacuum transistors ?

Post by ed »

Andrew, is there some misunderstanding here?

you asked
are they really any good?
I answered
I thought so
is that why you responded
Hmmmm if you don't like our thoughts and opinions
I'm not sure I(actually I'm certain I don't) understand the response......

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