Nothing In Particular

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Greg
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#11251 Re: Nothing In Particular

Post by Greg »

pre65 wrote: Sat Mar 14, 2020 8:43 pm I think that whatever the government does (or does not) do will invoke criticism, so they are buggered either way.
I doubt it. Certainly they would not be criticised for following WHO guidelines which currently they are not. China is showing that ruthless lock down appears to be working. It’s a new virus so there is much not known (and that includes what percentage of population would need to be infected to establish Herd Immunity) but surely the best approach is to adopt the practices of others who appear to be accomplishing what to date we know is having the greatest impact against the virus.
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shane
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#11252 Re: Nothing In Particular

Post by shane »

Old?
68.
Tick.

Vulnerable?
Asthmatic.
Tick.

Worried?
You bet! Especially since I’m still full time employed in a call centre with 500 other people. Company policy only seems to advise you about how to avoid spreading it once you’ve got it.

For all that, though, I do have a certain respect for the herd immunity POV. China has had about 80k cases so far, but today reported only 8 new ones. They’ve done this by savagely restricting movement and contact, but sooner or later they’ll have to lift those restrictions, and there’s still a billion more Chinese with no immunity, and the virus hasn’t gone away.

Lock yourself down, Greg? Good idea, but how long for? A vaccine by all accounts is going to be another 18 months away. Can’t see me being paid for that long, so by then the house will have been repossessed.

The best option I can come up with is either to try to contract the damned thing straight away in the hope that ICU beds are still available or try to hold it off as long as possible and hope by then the peak is passed. That could be several months.

Grim.
The world looks so different after learning science. For example, trees are made of air, primarily. When they are burned, they go back to air, and in their flaming heat is released the flaming heat of the Sun which was bound in to convert air into tree.
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pre65
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#11253 Re: Nothing In Particular

Post by pre65 »

I don't see a lot to worry about (so far) in Suffolk or Essex, I'm on the border between them.

Confirmed cases of the virus,

There are 9 cases in Essex, out of a local population of 1,477,764

There is 1 case in Suffolk, out of a local population of 758,556

The local bowls club has stopped indoor league games, and competitions, but members are free to play "roll ups" if they so desire.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

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Greg
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#11254 Re: Nothing In Particular

Post by Greg »

Yes, Philip, nice to be living in a low population community which undoubtably reduces the chance of cross infection. Unfortunately, many of us are not blessed that way and if we have to work, need to travel in person compacted situations. Not me, but my daughter works in central London and has to use the tube. I am anxious for her. I have a part time job, but it is not essential. I do it for the entertainment and the occupation of giving me something to do. It’s pocket money so I could give it up tomorrow. It’s no big deal. I still feel, under the current government policy, personal lock down is favourite. Of course, I’ll need to breach that occasionally to buy stuff in, etc. It’s a risk that needs to be taken.

I also have views on the hand washing nonsense as well. Yes, hand washing correctly and regularly is a great idea, although I don’t understand the contradiction on this advise with our governments current policy. How can regular hand washing make a difference? E.G. Today I went food shopping. I selected items that could have been handled by an infected person and brought them home (Apparently the virus can survive up to 72 hrs on a hard surface). So after arriving home and putting what I bought away, I washed my hands. Of course, once I need to use what I have bought, I’ll need to handle potentially contaminated products again. Hand wash again, yes, but where do you stop to avoid contamination. Think about everyday things. Your cash, your house and car keys. Even the car itself. Whilst I think and want to do social isolation as IMHO the best option, I readily acknowledge it is almost totally impossible to achieve properly.
Last edited by Greg on Sat Mar 14, 2020 9:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Nick
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#11255 Re: Nothing In Particular

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Unaccustomed that I am to side with the government, but in this case I think they and talking the best advice and they can get and following it. As for not following WHO advice, I am not sure that’s true, there was the World Health Organisation envoy on Covid-19 on any questions this week, and he seemed to thing the UK was doing the correct thing.As he said, the science is evolving as more is learnt, so there is disagreement over the best options, but the number of options are limited.
Our government want to slow down the spread of infection but not protect against it
Not sure what method you are suggesting that would protect from it, there is no Vaccine, therefore if they can isolate the vulnerable while the younger population builds up resistance, then until a vaccine is available, building up herd immunity is the only way of protecting the vulnerable. So while it may or not be callous, I think its the best of a bad list of options.
My conclusion is our government is happy for the population to become generally infected,
I don't think happy is involved, I think there is no way of preventing it now once it got beyond the containment state.
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#11256 Re: Nothing In Particular

Post by Nick »

Hand wash again, yes
The point of hand washing to to reduce the chance of the virus being on your hands when your hand can transfer it to a place where it can infect you. AFAIK, the skin provides protection but not hands mouth eyes etc.

The paper that reported 3 days on some surfaces didn't however suggest that the virus was still active after that long, just that it was possible to detect it, its likely that by then its RNA was damaged so it could not infect and spread.
Whilst I think and want to do social isolation as IMHO the best option, I readily acknowledge it is almost totally impossible to achieve properly.
Unless you have a fully stocked off grid panic room, then you will be dependent on others to bring supply’s and maintain services.For those services to be maintained people will have to go to work. Isolate the vulnerable, while you try and get the younger population infected and over the worst while continuing as normal.
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shane
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#11257 Re: Nothing In Particular

Post by shane »

pre65 wrote: Sat Mar 14, 2020 9:12 pm I don't see a lot to worry about (so far) in Suffolk or Essex, I'm on the border between them.

Confirmed cases of the virus,

There are 9 cases in Essex, out of a local population of 1,477,764

There is 1 case in Suffolk, out of a local population of 758,556

The local bowls club has stopped indoor league games, and competitions, but members are free to play "roll ups" if they so desire.
One assumes that the laws of statistics work the same in Essex as they do everywhere else. So far, in the western world, it’s followed a more or less exponential path, with each case infecting on average two other people. If the are nine cases in Essex today, you should expect 18 tomorrow, 36 on Monday, 72 on Tuesday, etc. Obviously it probably won’t follow exactly that trajectory, but you can be reasonably sure that within two weeks Essex will be well into four figures, with around twenty deaths. A week after that, God knows.
The world looks so different after learning science. For example, trees are made of air, primarily. When they are burned, they go back to air, and in their flaming heat is released the flaming heat of the Sun which was bound in to convert air into tree.
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#11258 Re: Nothing In Particular

Post by Cressy Snr »

This is what self preservation looks like then:
95D71826-C3F7-4546-9634-9E133613C43D.jpeg
Rather than getting a grip on the virus, the Govt need to get a grip on the nutters who did this, and who will continue to do so all over the country unless drastic measures are taken to stop them.
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#11259 Re: Nothing In Particular

Post by steve s »

I see your point Steve, but in the next couple of months they may be remembered as very nutty.... Or the forward thinking ones.

Give it a couple of month's and it could be that going to the supermarket may feel like crossing a busy motorway on foot.

I see the UK death toll doubled yesterday, I'm still not sure the virus knows about the uk's herding policy..
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#11260 Re: Nothing In Particular

Post by jack »

Cressy Snr wrote: Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:15 am This is what self preservation looks like then:
...
Rather than getting a grip on the virus, the Govt need to get a grip on the nutters who did this, and who will continue to do so all over the country unless drastic measures are taken to stop them.
Not sure where that was - yesterday I was in Asda Tunbridge Wells and the Coop in Cranbrook and both were pretty fully stocked.

They were rationing Paracetamol, pasta/rice & loo roll to one pack per person, but there was plenty to go round. Loads of fruit & veg etc.

Maybe people just excrete more in other parts of the country :)
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pre65
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#11261 Re: Nothing In Particular

Post by pre65 »

Coronavirus: Isolation for over-70s 'within weeks'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51895873

I'm only 69, till mid June.

I travel nearly 90 miles (return journey) once a week to look after my 93 year old Mums needs, am I going to stop that ?
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

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pre65
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#11262 Re: Nothing In Particular

Post by pre65 »

pre65 wrote: Sat Mar 14, 2020 9:12 pm
Confirmed cases of the virus,

There are 9 cases in Essex, out of a local population of 1,477,764

There is 1 case in Suffolk, out of a local population of 758,556
As at 9 AM this morning,

Essex = 8
Suffolk = 1
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

Edmund Burke

G-Popz THE easy listening connoisseur. (Philip)
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Mike H
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#11263 Re: Nothing In Particular

Post by Mike H »

Mike H wrote: Sat Jan 11, 2020 12:30 pm
Magnesium_2969.jpg

I am joining the experiment




i had to come back here to be reminded why the blinking flip am I taking these pills anyway – LOL :lol:

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#11264 Re: Nothing In Particular

Post by Mike H »

Nick wrote: Sat Mar 14, 2020 9:54 pm
Hand wash again, yes
The point of hand washing to to reduce the chance of the virus being on your hands when your hand can transfer it to a place where it can infect you. AFAIK, the skin provides protection but not hands mouth eyes etc.

The paper that reported 3 days on some surfaces didn't however suggest that the virus was still active after that long, just that it was possible to detect it, its likely that by then its RNA was damaged so it could not infect and spread.
Whilst I think and want to do social isolation as IMHO the best option, I readily acknowledge it is almost totally impossible to achieve properly.
Unless you have a fully stocked off grid panic room, then you will be dependent on others to bring supply’s and maintain services.For those services to be maintained people will have to go to work. Isolate the vulnerable, while you try and get the younger population infected and over the worst while continuing as normal.
Image
 
"No matter how fast light travels it finds that the darkness has always got there first, and is waiting for it."
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Nick
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#11265 Re: Nothing In Particular

Post by Nick »

pre65 wrote: Sun Mar 15, 2020 10:58 am Coronavirus: Isolation for over-70s 'within weeks'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51895873

I'm only 69, till mid June.

I travel nearly 90 miles (return journey) once a week to look after my 93 year old Mums needs, am I going to stop that ?
Maybe if you want to avoid carrying the virus to her then yes you should? Perhaps consider moving to her for the duration.
Whenever an honest man discovers that he's mistaken, he will either cease to be mistaken or he will cease to be honest.
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