it hints that electrolysis is becoming more cost effective than methane extraction
Yep, but electrolysis is at most 80% efficient so its much simpler to just send the electricity to where its needed than turning it into H2 and shipping that(with all its problems), and then turning that back into electricity in a fuel cell or burning it in a heat engine (say 50% at most efficiency for both of them).
At the moment most is generated in a process that emits C02, so not that green. Makes more sense to combine the H2 with C02 to create synthetic fuel which I think the US Navy do.
Whenever an honest man discovers that he's mistaken, he will either cease to be mistaken or he will cease to be honest.
Brilliant, let’s all get worried over the reuse of lithium batteries and their impact on the environment but hail the saviour of hydrogen fuel cells that contain an ‘indirect’ green house gas that is hugely expensive to make, environmentally damaging in a very nasty way, uses more energy to make than it can release and is a logistics nightmare for transportation and storage. Let the turkeys vote for xmas.
Neal wrote: ↑Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:23 am
Brilliant, let’s all get worried over the reuse of lithium batteries and their impact on the environment but hail the saviour of hydrogen fuel cells that contain an ‘indirect’ green house gas that is hugely expensive to make, environmentally damaging in a very nasty way, uses more energy to make than it can release and is a logistics nightmare for transportation and storage. Let the turkeys vote for xmas.
wtf
to whom is this addressed Neal, and what is the point you're making?
There's nowhere you can be that isn't where you're meant to be
Neal wrote: ↑Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:23 am
Brilliant, let’s all get worried over the reuse of lithium batteries and their impact on the environment but hail the saviour of hydrogen fuel cells that contain an ‘indirect’ green house gas that is hugely expensive to make, environmentally damaging in a very nasty way, uses more energy to make than it can release and is a logistics nightmare for transportation and storage. Let the turkeys vote for xmas.
wtf
to whom is this addressed Neal, and what is the point you're making?
I would guess to the person who asked "Is there a "clean way" to make, and dispose of, Lithium batteries yet ?" which seemed to be a Whataboutism reply to my comment about the problems involved with H2 production.
Whenever an honest man discovers that he's mistaken, he will either cease to be mistaken or he will cease to be honest.
It was a general rant, sorry to have offended anyone. I’ve seen the argument put forward before around the issues of lithium batteries, life, recycling etc which is valid but overshadowed by the even bigger issues surrounding Hydrogen and its affect on the environment. Batteries are by far the lesser evil
I think that firm opinions on environmental issues are good, the planet needs all the help we can give it.
The plastic situation is needing more attention, it's even in our tea bags.
Re the battery vs hydrogen debate. I'm not sure batteries (as we currently know them) are the way forward for HGVs and heavy rail that's not currently electrified.('scuse the pun)
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
All very good points, and to the best of my knowledge nobody has been offended, although 'rants' do somewhat cloud the issue.
This present discussion seems to have started with the intro of hydrogen fuel improvements, which has migrated into a 'what's best' discussion between hydrogen and battery.
Perhaps this needs a thread of it's own because it seems I'm not alone in being interested.
I am interested in hydrogen as a fuel, but not as a contender for which is best. Like other forms of energy storage and use it's in a state of intense development so I can't see how it can be used in an argument for which is best at anything, at this moment in time.
I am also interested in Li-on and Li-po technology, and I do have a hands-on investment in this one. My experience is purely down to flat cell Li-po varieties which range from 2.2 to 5 Amp hour cells, of which I use 3 to 5 cell versions.(cells being averaged at 3.7volts per cell but charge to 4.2volts). In the 5 or 6 years I've been interested in this the technology has migrated 3 times to my knowledge. First there was simple Li-po, then nano-tech Li-po and now there is talk of graphene Li-po. These advancements show large improvements in storage and release capabilities and I'm pretty sure they will be some of the improvements used in the EV sector.
My biggest question is what is the difference between the 18650(Li-on) cylinder type cells which Tesla use and the flat pack 5Ah cells that I use. I do know that these Li-po cells can 'fail' for one of the misuse reasons, which are the same as the warnings given for Tesla packs.They can also fail for no apparent misuse reasons. When a cell fails(and is usually detected because it won't balance charge in a pack) the pack is useless and must be disposed of for safety reasons. Sometimes they fail after excessive gassing, where they swell up and the size becomes unwieldy and worrying. When they fail and get angry they can be spectacular in demonstrating the anger...to wit, they can explode or they can just catch fire, but in either case it's not possible to extinguish the fire because they provide their own oxygen.
So why do we not hear of Tesla packs failing or other manufacturers batteries failing???? I am aware that Li-po and Li-on are slightly different in the average voltage and peak charged voltages , but they are essentially the same Lithium chemistry and both obey the same physical rules.
Is it that the 18650 types never fail....which I find very difficult to beleive. There is little or no info about this on the interweb, and certainly no reason given for the few changes within the 8 year warranty, i.e no explanations.
edit: when I say fail, I do not mean the gradual degradation of capacity...I mean fail, stop charging completely or the internal resistance increasing suddenly.
edit1: in my mind disposal could mean recycle, I'm not making a distinction.
There's nowhere you can be that isn't where you're meant to be
Thanks Ed for making me aware of my ignorance about Li-po (lithium polymer) batteries.
In case anyone else shares my ignorance here are the differences between Li-ion and Li-po.
"Lithium ion batteries: They have high energy density and cost less than lithium polymer. They are essentially a group of very rigid electricity generating compartments, which consists of three pieces: a positive electrode; a negative electrode; and an electrolyte, or liquid chemical compound between them. Most lithium-ion batteries, unlike more traditional ones, also include an electronic controller, which regulates power and discharge flows so your battery doesn’t overheat or explode.
Lithium polymer batteries: They are light weight and have improved safety. However their cost is high (30% average) as compared to lithium ion. Also the the energy density of Li-Polymer battery compared to Li-Ion Batteries is quite less. In Li-Po batteries it isn’t a liquid. Instead, Li-Po technology uses one of three forms: a dry solid, which was largely phased out during the prototype years of lithium polymer batteries; a porous chemical compound; or, a gel-like electrolyte. The most popular among these is the last one, which is the type of battery you’ll find in newer laptop computers and electric cars. The catch is that plenty of companies are not actually selling you a true Li-Po battery, instead it’s a lithium-ion polymer battery, or a Li-ion in a more flexible casing. Lithium-polymer batteries are generally robust and flexible, especially when it comes to the size and shape of their build. They have an extremely low profile, and have a lower chance of suffering from leaking electrolyte. But they are significantly more costly to manufacture, and they do not they have the same energy density nor lifespan as a lithium-ion."
*
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
Why do car manufactures go for li-on? Cost, capacity, weight and that they can be discharged deeper than lipo without damage. Discharge a lipo below the cliff will cause it damage and upon recharging may cause it to heat and self ignite. Quality of the cell is key but that’s generally why car manufacturers stick to lion. Benefit of li-po is high discharge rates, li-on doesn’t have the same C rate unless you parallel them up so it’s a balance between endurance ((range) and power output
Edit or it may just be down to the necessary cell quality is achieved in 18650 format rather than a pouch lipo cell...
I only looked this up as I was going through my Pi-hole logs for the first time in months, and was wondering about some of the more obviously MS stuff...
Pi-hole has blocked over 53% of (out of over 32,000) requests in the last 24 hours. There are 904,593 domains in my blocklists. Makes you wonder just how much rubbish is out there... A total of only 5 domains needed whitelisting - two around AliExpress, one for my son's turbo trainer, one for a VPN discussion board and one for a redirect to a parcel tracking service.
BTW. Those 53% blocks have absolutely no effect on any of the apps or sites I use, other than to stop a load of rubbish appearing and a lot of "calling home", so apart from the aesthetic benefit, you gain far more privacy. YouTube and some other sites cannot be filtered by Pi-hole as the sites insert the ads directly into the video stream and thus a DNS filter can't distinguish ads from genuine data.
With regard to in video adds on youtube, Brave Browser does a nice job of blocking them. You still get an interruption in the video but you don't see the ad. Sometimes it will blank the screen for a bit or pause then continue...
