Ali Bastanis OB testing & results

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simon
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Re: Ali Bastanis OB testing & results

Post by simon » Thu Feb 06, 2020 3:15 pm

The benefit of the Behringers is the in built DSP I suppose, noting comments that Vic doesn't actually use any. Are there any decent, affordable standalone DSP options if required?

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Re: Ali Bastanis OB testing & results

Post by chris661 » Thu Feb 06, 2020 3:42 pm

MiniDSP is one. There's also the Behringer DCX2496.

The Powersoft amplifiers I've been using professionally have DSP built-in, and were a good jump ahead of the Behringer DCX2496 and iNukes I was using previously. The difference was hearing the notes (Behringer), and hearing the venue the notes were recorded in (Powersoft) - a different level of detail retrieval.
The Powersoft amps aren't exactly cheap, but you get what you pay for. If you want to see something really cool, look at the Powersoft X8.

IME, the DSP iNukes (and NX-series) are about the same as a DCX2496 and a non-DSP iNuke/NX. The DCX2496 retains its value well on the 2nd-hand market, but the high signal levels might pose problems for integrating into a home HiFi.

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Re: Ali Bastanis OB testing & results

Post by Vangelo » Thu Feb 06, 2020 3:46 pm

Just to clarify:

In a small room I think a single UM18 will be fine. There is definitely something magical about the UM vs the RSS390 15" I was using before and feel a 1 x 18" UM18 would give a better result than 2 x 15"

Probably get away with using a single NX6000......its just I have a fetish re. bass 8)

I know Behringers generally have a bad name. The company overate the amps power-wise and they are noisy as they were not intended for domestic use.
However, the DSP section on these amps is brilliant and so intuitive to use. They can be easily dialed in to give great results....in real time from your laptop. I think they sound fine for bass applications, and these give 1200W RMS @ 4ohms/channel which is perfect. Changing the fans to Arctic F8's makes them quiet enough for home use.

I have used XTZ sub amps previously. I also had a Crown amp which I had to send back as needed a college degree to figure out the DSP. Could not get a decent sound out of it. I have been using the iNukes for years, and IMO they trounce the XTZ and Crown.

I am using the DSP section....but not to apply baffle correction as not needed with the UM's. I use the crossover and limiter section, a small notch @ 50hz for a room resonance I have, and dynamic eq to boost bass at low volumes.

Will see if I can figure out how to post some pics.

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Re: Ali Bastanis OB testing & results

Post by Nick » Thu Feb 06, 2020 3:50 pm

How are the amps and speakers connected for the 18", the speakers seem to be 2ohm units and the amps are noted as not being 2 ohm stable?
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Re: Ali Bastanis OB testing & results

Post by Ali Tait » Thu Feb 06, 2020 3:53 pm

simon wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 3:12 pm
Are you thinking of more of the same 18"ers Ali, or swapping to the Daytons?
Swap to the Daytons Simon, Vic's tried quite a few drivers, including some pricey 18" AE's, but reckons there's something special about the Daytons.
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Re: Ali Bastanis OB testing & results

Post by Ali Tait » Thu Feb 06, 2020 3:54 pm

Nick wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 3:50 pm
How are the amps and speakers connected for the 18", the speakers seem to be 2ohm units and the amps are noted as not being 2 ohm stable?
Two 2 ohm coils I believe Nick, can be connected series or parallel.
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Re: Ali Bastanis OB testing & results

Post by Nick » Thu Feb 06, 2020 3:57 pm

Yep, I get that Ali, but the description seemed to show that two of the two channel amps were used.

Ahh, I see, there are two coils per speaker/ Ignore that then,
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Re: Ali Bastanis OB testing & results

Post by Ali Tait » Thu Feb 06, 2020 4:02 pm

Wolfgang wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:58 pm
Very interesting. Thanks for the report.Can we have more information and close up pics especially about the "hanging mechanism" ("The PRV mid/top drivers are hung from a U shape bracket, again with a loop of cable under the top drivers' magnet. Vic made some fish plates, more or less the shape of a dog bone to connect the four drivers together, all just hanging there from the top driver.") ? Are there construction plans that could be published?
My excitement about using Behringer amps is limited but there are class D amps that sound more like tubes (adding some harmonic spectrum similar to tubes). Does it really need 6000W amps? And the fans in those Behringers are not silent enough for home use. I used for a while a Behringer in my AV system and had to disconnect the fans. The sound also changed to the better when I replaced the Behringer with a Cary CAD 120S.
The fans can be swapped for silent types which makes the amps domestically acceptable. I agree they sound like jet turbines as standard.

As for SQ, having used Behringers for bass duties for a few years, I agree with Vic, they are very good for this purpose, especially given they are only being used up to say 300hz. Sound very good to me and I think you'd probably have to spend substantially more to better them. I do have a miniDSP 4x10HD and a big 400w Class A/B amp in storage though, so I might compare sometime- it's been in the back of my mind to try on the Bastanis as they are.
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Re: Ali Bastanis OB testing & results

Post by Ali Tait » Thu Feb 06, 2020 4:02 pm

Nick wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 3:57 pm
Yep, I get that Ali, but the description seemed to show that two of the two channel amps were used.

Ahh, I see, there are two coils per speaker/ Ignore that then,
Yes, sorry should have said, two coils in each driver. :D
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Re: Ali Bastanis OB testing & results

Post by Ali Tait » Thu Feb 06, 2020 4:06 pm

Vangelo wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 3:46 pm
Just to clarify:

In a small room I think a single UM18 will be fine. There is definitely something magical about the UM vs the RSS390 15" I was using before and feel a 1 x 18" UM18 would give a better result than 2 x 15"

Probably get away with using a single NX6000......its just I have a fetish re. bass 8)

I know Behringers generally have a bad name. The company overate the amps power-wise and they are noisy as they were not intended for domestic use.
However, the DSP section on these amps is brilliant and so intuitive to use. They can be easily dialed in to give great results....in real time from your laptop. I think they sound fine for bass applications, and these give 1200W RMS @ 4ohms/channel which is perfect. Changing the fans to Arctic F8's makes them quiet enough for home use.

I have used XTZ sub amps previously. I also had a Crown amp which I had to send back as needed a college degree to figure out the DSP. Could not get a decent sound out of it. I have been using the iNukes for years, and IMO they trounce the XTZ and Crown.

I am using the DSP section....but not to apply baffle correction as not needed with the UM's. I use the crossover and limiter section, a small notch @ 50hz for a room resonance I have, and dynamic eq to boost bass at low volumes.

Will see if I can figure out how to post some pics.
So there is a DSP boost used then Vic, or are you referring to the 10db lift to match sensitivities?
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Re: Ali Bastanis OB testing & results

Post by Ali Tait » Thu Feb 06, 2020 4:22 pm

chris661 wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 3:42 pm
MiniDSP is one. There's also the Behringer DCX2496.

The Powersoft amplifiers I've been using professionally have DSP built-in, and were a good jump ahead of the Behringer DCX2496 and iNukes I was using previously. The difference was hearing the notes (Behringer), and hearing the venue the notes were recorded in (Powersoft) - a different level of detail retrieval.
The Powersoft amps aren't exactly cheap, but you get what you pay for. If you want to see something really cool, look at the Powersoft X8.

IME, the DSP iNukes (and NX-series) are about the same as a DCX2496 and a non-DSP iNuke/NX. The DCX2496 retains its value well on the 2nd-hand market, but the high signal levels might pose problems for integrating into a home HiFi.

Chris
I found the miniDSP to be a good bit better than the 2496 I had before it. The iNuke and NX do both jobs in one though, and they are very reasonably priced!
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Re: Ali Bastanis OB testing & results

Post by Vangelo » Thu Feb 06, 2020 5:10 pm

chris661 wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 3:42 pm
MiniDSP is one. There's also the Behringer DCX2496.

The Powersoft amplifiers I've been using professionally have DSP built-in, and were a good jump ahead of the Behringer DCX2496 and iNukes I was using previously. The difference was hearing the notes (Behringer), and hearing the venue the notes were recorded in (Powersoft) - a different level of detail retrieval.
The Powersoft amps aren't exactly cheap, but you get what you pay for. If you want to see something really cool, look at the Powersoft X8.

IME, the DSP iNukes (and NX-series) are about the same as a DCX2496 and a non-DSP iNuke/NX. The DCX2496 retains its value well on the 2nd-hand market, but the high signal levels might pose problems for integrating into a home HiFi.

Chris
I could buy 22 x NX6000D's for the price of a single Powersoft X8. Not a direction I am prepared to head in. I like to keep my hifi real!

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Re: Ali Bastanis OB testing & results

Post by simon » Thu Feb 06, 2020 5:58 pm

Vangelo wrote:
Thu Feb 06, 2020 3:46 pm
In a small room I think a single UM18 will be fine. There is definitely something magical about the UM vs the RSS390 15" I was using before and feel a 1 x 18" UM18 would give a better result than 2 x 15"
That's good news! But I need to reread the thread again as I thought much of the magic was from two drivers facing each other.

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Re: Ali Bastanis OB testing & results

Post by Nick » Thu Feb 06, 2020 6:13 pm

Remember the drivers are out of phase and facing in the opposite direction, so in theory there should just be a moving column of air between the two drivers and no pressure. People who understand the physics may have a view if that air mass has any effect but I know not.

IMHO, the big advantage of the two drivers is you have a unit that can be balanced about its center so can just sit in the two cradles. Would be much harder with just the one.
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Re: Ali Bastanis OB testing & results

Post by Ali Tait » Thu Feb 06, 2020 6:29 pm

Yes, I think the cradle thing has a lot to do with sound I was hearing, I’m not sure just one driver in a baffle would sound as good.
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