Fane 12-250TC Retro Speaker.

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#166 Re: Fane 12-250TC Retro Speaker.

Post by steve s »

They were great Steve. Thanks for bringing them. I really liked how they sounded They gave a big, full and forward sound I am very impressed and for what they cost truly a hi fi diyers bargain.. the amp was very good too Steve... a good day with impressive results
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#167 Re: Fane 12-250TC Retro Speaker.

Post by Cressy Snr »

Glad you liked them Steve.
I think you're right about these drivers. They are an absolute gift to the hi-fi DIY'er; a full-ranger with very few of the drawbacks that come with the usual driver of this type.
They can be fierce on-axis; that characteristic of FR drivers remains, but fire them straight down the room and as you heard, they can do an excellent job of playing music out over a wide listening area without causing ear fatigue. I think we had them going about five hours.
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#168 Re: Fane 12-250TC Retro Speaker.

Post by ed »

Fab day chaps, thanks....

this is going to cost me money..sassenfrassencursinclaudehopper! I've had my finger over the button for much of the afternoon, shall I, shant I, shall I......oh waily, the mem sahib will invent new words to call me.

I don't need another pair of speakers, and I don't really want another pair of speakers...but that sound was luvverly.

actually I missed a trick. I should have brought the F2 along as it promises to be a match made in heaven.

still vacillating...oh waily waily

diet: perhaps if I bring the F2 to owston is there any chance we can have a 10 minute hookup Steve?
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#169 Re: Fane 12-250TC Retro Speaker.

Post by Ant »

They were very nice on the end of my F5 ed, so you are probably right. It seemed to get hold of them by the scruff of the neck.
Thankyou for those turning chisels BTW, they will be put to good use!
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#170 Re: Fane 12-250TC Retro Speaker.

Post by ed »

Ant wrote: Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:16 pm They were very nice on the end of my F5 ed, so you are probably right. It seemed to get hold of them by the scruff of the neck.
Thankyou for those turning chisels BTW, they will be put to good use!
you are very welcome Ant.

I mentioned the F2 because it needs a single, wide range driver. Completely different kettle of monkeys to F5 et al. It's single ended, single stage, transconductance amp(current amp). Not very good with anything thats got a crossover. As close to a single wire with gain that I've found so far.
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#171 Re: Fane 12-250TC Retro Speaker.

Post by IslandPink »

I think the high output impedance will raise the system Q even more, so it probably won't work .. :(
Likely to sound very loose.
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#172 Re: Fane 12-250TC Retro Speaker.

Post by Cressy Snr »

ed wrote: Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:34 pm Fab day chaps, thanks....

.....perhaps if I bring the F2 to owston is there any chance we can have a 10 minute hookup Steve?
Yep, no problem Ed. You can hook the F2 to the Fanes. They worked great with Steves PX25 amp yesterday once it had warmed up, and Simon's and my own 2A3 amps. In fact, they love SE valve amps, so I can't see the solid state F2 being a problem.
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#173 Re: Fane 12-250TC Retro Speaker.

Post by Cressy Snr »

IslandPink wrote: Sat Jun 16, 2018 9:11 pm I think the high output impedance will raise the system Q even more, so it probably won't work .. :(
Likely to sound very loose.
I know you still don't buy it Mark, but Q really is not an issue.
Last edited by Cressy Snr on Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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#174 Re: Fane 12-250TC Retro Speaker.

Post by IslandPink »

Deleted.
Broke my self-imposed rule.
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#175 Re: Fane 12-250TC Retro Speaker.

Post by ed »

IslandPink wrote: Sat Jun 16, 2018 9:11 pm I think the high output impedance will raise the system Q even more, so it probably won't work .. :(
Likely to sound very loose.
I went to bed at about 11:30 last night so I missed all the replies to this. I lay awake for a long time thinking about why they sounded so good on Steve's PX amp and wouldn't on my F2.

It's a fair point Mark but I'm not going to let a bit of theory get in the way of me trying it out.

If there's one thing I've learned on this 15 year journey, it's that theory has got in the way of discovery far too many times.
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#176 Re: Fane 12-250TC Retro Speaker.

Post by Cressy Snr »

ed wrote: Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:42 am
I went to bed at about 11:30 last night so I missed all the replies to this. I lay awake for a long time thinking about why they sounded so good on Steve's PX amp and wouldn't on my F2.

It's a fair point Mark but I'm not going to let a bit of theory get in the way of me trying it out.

If there's one thing I've learned on this 15 year journey, it's that theory has got in the way of discovery far too many times.
+1
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#177

Post by Cressy Snr »

One last go then I give up trying to explain myself.
Here is how I arrived at the design for this speaker.
Asking the right questions goes a long way towards removing the analysis paralysis.
Below are the three questions I reduced it all to.

1. Sealed or ported?
Image

Right! The line is further towards the sealed end. So its sealed then.

2. Ideal system Q vs sensible box size:
Image

Done.

Q is 1 but that's not really much of a problem. Refer back to old designs I did in mid to late 70s and find out that I was doing boxes with that kind of system Q and they were fine. Box sizes I came up with back then with slide rule and following wind were so similar to the new fangled calculator results, it was creepy. Dejà vu or what :wink:
Look at my old books and there were the very same boxes being used in the 60s, so we're onto something here.

3. Box dimensions themselves:

There was a chart I used long ago that gave ratios of H to W to D that would give optimum, boom free low end performance for old fashioned large, wide, shallow boxes. Luckily I found it in the bowels of the Internet
Image
A bit of converting from Litres to cubic inches in order to get an imperial box volume to read off, and bingo! We had a set of dimensions to work with.

Produce cutting list, build boxes, finish cosmetics, listen & enjoy.
That's it.
Last edited by Cressy Snr on Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:54 am, edited 3 times in total.
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#178 Re: Fane 12-250TC Retro Speaker.

Post by Cressy Snr »

Here is the same calc for box type, done on the 15 incher.

Image

That favours sealed even more.
Needs a almost a 2 x bigger box, but whaddya expect? It's a bigger driver. Stands to reason.

Not rocket science designing a high quality, 1960s type sealed box loudspeaker then.

With multiway speakers though, the box is only half the story. Filters for multi-way speakers are a quite another matter, and I fully acknowledge the maths, experience and black art needed to produce high order passive filters that marry up bass mids and tweeters without damaging the music, and I fully respect those designers who can work with such stuff.

BUT what we have above, is a KISS design and anybody on here who can work wood, is well capable of making a mighty fine sound with the Fane 12 and 15 by following my recipe above.
Consider it a gift from me to you.

Try it someday; you won't regret it. :)
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#179 Re: Fane 12-250TC Retro Speaker.

Post by IslandPink »

Thanks for that info. I should have probably left the word 'even' out of my post up there. I don't want to criticise the Qc at 1.0 you've got with the current designs, and sealed is the way to go, I'm all in favour of that. It's probably the smaller ported speakers with Q at 1.2 or 1.3 that have put me off higher Q, but they have more bass lag than a sealed box. Still, I'm concerned what Ed will get with the F2, I think Nelson's application for that amp had the speakers built with that in mind - maybe I can find out what he did. If you have a fallback amp Ed, no bother !
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#180 Re: Fane 12-250TC Retro Speaker.

Post by ed »

IslandPink wrote: Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:14 pm Still, I'm concerned what Ed will get with the F2, I think Nelson's application for that amp had the speakers built with that in mind - maybe I can find out what he did. If you have a fallback amp Ed, no bother !
I suspect you're taking the piss, no?
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