This phase thing

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Dr Bunsen Honeydew
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#61 Re: This phase thing

Post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

Well he tell me how to design hifi and he tells you the law - clever man or eeeeediot, there seems to be only one choice.
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Greg
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#62 Re: This phase thing

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Dr Bunsen Honeydew wrote: Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:22 pm Well he tell me how to design hifi and he tells you the law - clever man or eeeeediot, there seems to be only one choice.
Er, when on both counts?

More fabrications eh, Richard. It must be a lifestyle choice.

By the way, who did design the amplifier circuit you use in all of your amps?
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pre65
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#63 Re: This phase thing

Post by pre65 »

Greg wrote: Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:18 pm

By the way, who did design the amplifier circuit you use in all of your amps?
That's a very interesting question Greg, I wonder if the truth will prevail ?

Hang on though, I won't see the answer. :lol:
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Tarkers
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#64 Re: This phase thing

Post by Tarkers »

Back on topic, I found this http://greenmountainaudio.com/speaker-t ... coherence/ rather interesting. It does somewhat tend to support 1st order crossovers (or if you are fortunate with your drivers, to be able to run the bass/mid 'full range' with just a cap and resistor or l-pad on the tweeter).
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Dr Bunsen Honeydew
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#65 Re: This phase thing

Post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

Who designs - Originally three application notes, one for a voltage amp (taken from an encapsulated op-amp circuit), one for a current mirror, one for a current amp. Lots of mods and getting them to work together and tuning by ear in small ways since, mostly removing components. I don't work for a semiconductor company so I don't write application notes. All the work since has been by me. So who is THE designer :roll:

The unique nature is I know of no one who has done the same or similar, the odd one being the current mirror that also adds voltage gain.

Oh! I forgot the drivers, but they just do what they do.
Last edited by Dr Bunsen Honeydew on Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
CN211276
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#66 Re: This phase thing

Post by CN211276 »

Greg wrote: Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:56 am When people question the reproduction quality of Tidal, I just don't get it. I've never had my sound so good and what's more it's all totally satisfying. Just switch on, listen and enjoy. I can't remember the last time I had my system listening ears on. It's just the music these days :D
Totally agree with this. I have subscribed to Tidal Hi-Fi for two years and to my ears, which is what matters, the sound quality is of the highest order. To me it is the music that matters, owning a physical item is very much secondary. The print on most CDs is too small for me to read in any case. Have ripped and sold my collection as well as the CD player. CDs sound far better from the computer. I only play a ripped CD, or vinyl, if the album is not on Tidal and that is a rare occurrence. I can also download over a hundred albums in high resolution to my phone, with memory card, which is a huge plus as I am out and about a lot. It is notable that some comments about the recent Scalford stated that no analogue sourced system sounded better than a decent digital set up. This came as no surprise. There is also the issue of the cost differential between a good TT/cartridge/phono stage set up and a good DAC.

As well as new music, Tidal is providing me with access to music from the classic era of the late 60s and early 70s which I missed out on. I am now getting into albums from the Faces, Moody Blues, Free Barclay James Harvest, Hendrix and Cream to name but a few.

Streaming, all be it compressed, is taking over the mainstream. I think the reason why it has not been embraced to anything like the same extent by audiophiles is because of their advancing years. They still wish to cling on to their extensive music collections, built up over decades, which take up a lot of space, CD players and turntables. This is understandable, but technology moves on and times have changed. All that is really required is a good quality DAC which does not have to cost the earth, releasing funds for better amplifiers, speakers, cables, mains corrections etc.
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Dr Bunsen Honeydew
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#67 Re: This phase thing

Post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

We seem to be getting away from this phase thing. So what is the next stage on from what Nick has done. You have my suggestion, any others.
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#68 Re: This phase thing

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I just wanted to make the point that we can hear it. I think its done that. Up to others if they want to worry about that and or take notice in anything they design, or in what people think of buying.
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Dr Bunsen Honeydew
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#69 Re: This phase thing

Post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

It would be sad not to progress it, as I keep saying I will be happy to contribute. It could be combined with the Moose challenge.

There isn't another forum where this could be done IMO, though there are other DIY biased forums but I don't read or join them. Can you imagine the eeediots at AoS doing something like this :lol: :lol: or more to the point can you imagine Marco allowing it.
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#70 Re: This phase thing

Post by rowuk »

Our entire sense of direction and distance is based on phase. A human has great ability to compensate for serious errors in frequency response (ever wonder why 6" open back speakers get such good press?), but has no mechanism for phase. That means we can compensate for the frequency response error when caused by phase, but not compensate for the rest of what phase does to the sound.

How serious phase screws up our music, has a lot to do with the music and how it was recorded. A grand piano in a large room will suffer more than a direct to the mix board electric guitar. There are crossover designs than make phase alignment worthless...
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#71 Re: This phase thing

Post by karatestu »

Tarkers wrote: Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:11 pm Back on topic, I found this http://greenmountainaudio.com/speaker-t ... coherence/ rather interesting. It does somewhat tend to support 1st order crossovers (or if you are fortunate with your drivers, to be able to run the bass/mid 'full range' with just a cap and resistor or l-pad on the tweeter).
I have read that and found it very interesting too, thanks Tarkers :wink: Also read some of the other stuff on there.

As a 3 way semi Omni user (doc's doped drivers and no crossover) I found it has helped my listening skills i.e what to listen for.

I would be interested to know what effect, if any, (on phase and the music) filters have when employed in DC regulators. I have in the past and read about others cascading regulators and liking what they heard. As keeping things simple and using the lowest number of reactive components as possible seems the way forward here then that may suggest that this can be mirrored in the power supply ? Excuse my ignorance here.
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#72 Re: This phase thing

Post by karatestu »

Tarkers wrote: Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:11 pm Back on topic, I found this http://greenmountainaudio.com/speaker-t ... coherence/ rather interesting. It does somewhat tend to support 1st order crossovers (or if you are fortunate with your drivers, to be able to run the bass/mid 'full range' with just a cap and resistor or l-pad on the tweeter).
I have read that and found it very interesting too, thanks Tarkers :wink: Also read some of the other stuff on there.

As a 3 way semi Omni user (doc's doped drivers and no crossover) I found it has helped my listening skills i.e what to listen for.

I would be interested to know what effect, if any, (on phase and the music) filters have when employed in DC regulators. I have in the past and read about others cascading regulators and liking what they heard. As keeping things simple and using the lowest number of reactive components as possible seems the way forward here then that may suggest that this can be mirrored in the power supply ? Excuse my ignorance here.
:bigsmurf:
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#73 Re: This phase thing

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Great article.
Thanks Tarkers.
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#74 Re: This phase thing

Post by IslandPink »

That does look a very good article, I must print out the whole thing for leisurely reading.
"All loudspeakers distort the timing between high and low sounds, regardless of how they operate"
In practical detail, true, but a long wideband horn like the WE16a ( or more successfully the 12A ) driven by a suitable compression driver like the WE555 achieves a more or less flat phase response over about 5 octaves. The curving or folding does spoil the perfection to some extent, or the resonant metal in the case of the 16a.
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David Pinnegar
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#75 Re: This phase thing

Post by David Pinnegar »

WOW! It's really wonderful to see the enthusiasm of exploration on this subject - but to be perfectly honest, as Fourier transforms would indicate, the absolute phase is - to me - inaudible although possibly obstructed by tinnitus. Upon phase change you're actually introducing a new frequency set as a transient which we can hear.

One of my other hats apart from speaker interests is in tuning pianos and . . . questioning the conventional tunings, about which perhaps I might post in due course.

With regard to issues of speakers and crossovers, the problem with crossovers is one sound coming out as two things in two parts. That's when phase differences from one unit presenting the same sound matter when one unit is partially cancelling or partially reinforcing - the sound is indistinctly split and muddied. The other problem is the difference in acceleration on transients between woofer and tweeter of very different masses.

is all about splitting the sound between two speakers.


Best wishes

David P
Last edited by David Pinnegar on Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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