Up-Firing Metronome in Larson Pyramid Style

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pre65
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#181 Re: Up-Firing Metronome in Larson Pyramid Style

Post by pre65 »

Dr Bunsen Honeydew wrote: Sat Feb 18, 2017 1:07 am Jeez, you really have a verbal diarrhoea problem, now where are the graphs (semi :mrgreen: )

I have come to the conclusion we are polar opposites, you are a complicator where as I am a simplifier.
The thing is Richard, when you read one of Scotts "complicated" (your word :) ) posts you know exactly what he meant to convey.

I find them articulate and interesting.
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#182 Re: Up-Firing Metronome in Larson Pyramid Style

Post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

Perhaps you waffle as much as he does. :roll:
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#183 Re: Up-Firing Metronome in Larson Pyramid Style

Post by pre65 »

Dr Bunsen Honeydew wrote: Sat Feb 18, 2017 12:09 pm Perhaps you waffle as much as he does. :roll:
Perhaps I do. :wink:

But, "waffle" is defined as "speak or write at length in a vague or trivial manner" and I most certainly would not say that about Scott's posts.

If you don't like the content of any posts on here then that is your prerogative but why do you feel the need to make it personal.

Argue the facts if you must,and put a counter point of view if you don't agree, nothing wrong with a full and frank discussion. :)
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#184 Re: Up-Firing Metronome in Larson Pyramid Style

Post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

THE FACTS ARE - IMO, he over complicates things, and it is not only my opinion. I have linked a few people to his articles (too big to be considered posts) and to a man they reacted the same way as me, after a few sentences the eyes glaze over the brain complains and the rest is just skip read to see if there is anything substantial amoungst all the waffle.

Since when do you have an ad hominem rule here, as far as I can see from recent history I can be as rude as I like, I choose not to be.
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#185 Re: Up-Firing Metronome in Larson Pyramid Style

Post by pre65 »

Dr Bunsen Honeydew wrote: Sat Feb 18, 2017 1:15 pm
Since when do you have an ad hominem rule here, as far as I can see from recent history I can be as rude as I like, I choose not to be.
We don't as such, but as you champion that particular cause you could be seen as being "two faced" .
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#186 Re: Up-Firing Metronome in Larson Pyramid Style

Post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

And you are out for a spat per usual and looking for any excuse. You are a complete waste of space, everyone sees when you do it, everyone knows what you are up to - you just make an arse of yourself without any help from me - carry on, my last comment so fill yer boots with your strange infatuation with me.
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#187 Re: Up-Firing Metronome in Larson Pyramid Style

Post by Scottmoose »

Richard, I have no interest in your opinion of my writing style, or that of whoever you felt the need to share one of my posts with. I am always interested in discussing content though.

Steve -I don't quite understand why you seem to be defensive, given that I was supporting you re the potential for quasi-omni types, which is likely to grow over the next few years.
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#188 Re: Up-Firing Metronome in Larson Pyramid Style

Post by Cressy Snr »

I'm not being defensive Scott.

Just trying to point out what a shame it is about the current state of the high end and that things could have been so much better for the hi-fi industry, but for a certain way of designing speakers that was and continues to be regardless of the protestations, of its followers, completely at odds with the average person's domestic wants and needs.
I'm going on what I got told by friends, acquaintances and colleagues.

Did you know, for instance, that from my research done so far, even single pedestal speaker stands, no matter how good looking are not wanted in their homes. Three and four legged stands are rejected out of hand. And don't get them started on spikes! OK its only a small sample of around thirty, taken over the last six months, and it is merely anecdotal, but I believe it is very relevant.

Now this information was all collected, from the results of talking to women, who like it or not have their own views on hi-fi and living rooms that need to be respected. No men were asked, which was easy to arrange as my profession, particularly the 5-11 age range I work with, as you know, is very highly feminised, so I had the perfect subjects.

Small speakers are only allowed in the living room if they are on bookshelves, floorstanders only if they are right back up to the wall and certainly not 18" deep front to back. Wider than deep, maximum 10 inches depth and up against the wall is a floorstander configuration that is liked, so Dave D's Mileva and Demetri are well in.

All I did to get this what I consider valuable info, was show these women pictures of speakers, past and present; a sort of mood board and say, "would you have this in your living room?"

If speakers are to be different from the above aesthetics, then they need to look different to the run of the mill rectangular shape, so that they become an attractive feature piece of furniture/talking point, but they still must be against the wall.

I have other anecdotal evidence, but you get the picture.

Interestingly I presented a smaller part of the info I've gathered, last year, on another forum I no longer post on and was told in no uncertain terms by one person to grow a pair; pathetic really. :lol: :lol:


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#189 Re: Up-Firing Metronome in Larson Pyramid Style

Post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

EXACTLY and what the moose seems to not see is that it is normal mortals who buy loudspeakers. Give one of his post to one of them and they would just say "what the feck is he on about, and why does he take so long saying it", well in reality they are right and the verbose bullshit is just that.

FFS speakers are about THE most simple thing in the world of audio, and you have three choices, make a noise, make music, or make bullshit high end hifi. The first requires being an idiot, the second requires ears, and the third requires an over inflated brain and ego.

A solid box, well made drivers, good ears to make choices, good music = bliss

A waffling over complicated container full of physical filters and passive (or even active) electrical filters, and believing charts created artificially with over priced under purposed unnecessary test gear, that in reality are just ego toys. Even with good music = constant dissatisfaction.

And sadly the last example is most of our current hi-fi industry with the added restrictions of perceived WAF, and to use the cheapest crapiest drivers they can get away with as long as there is perceived value.
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#190 Re: Up-Firing Metronome in Larson Pyramid Style

Post by Scottmoose »

Sorry to hear that Steve. Pathetic indeed. When people resort to personal insults, it generally tells you something. I'm glad you ignored it though; always the way forward. :)

I hadn't heard about your research, but it's great you've got something so successful. And I entirely agree that hi-fi needs to expand and pay more attention to what mass-market consumers want if it wants to grow, or even survive. I've been making that point for a long time (years), as have many others. However, style being the fickle thing it is, not everyone wants the same thing; you get buyers who like the very heavily sculpted designs, but you get others who prefer something more traditional too. There's room for all tastes; depends on the target market since nothing's ever likely to receive universal acceptance. Same for wide-baffe designs. I'm rather fond of them myself & have designed a good number, e.g. Milevia & Dimitri, but not everyone can use them since they haven't the wall-space available (me included). I've got one up my sleeve that I'd love to do at some point, but time & money tend to get in the way. ;)

Re voicing, in general I think you're correct: most speakers, and certainly most in the UK given our usually limited room sizes should be designed with a view to boundary loading and its effects on the response. A good number, in fairness, are, although not all of course. Which takes you back to the target market for a particular company or product is. Interesting though isn't it?
Last edited by Scottmoose on Sat Feb 18, 2017 6:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#191 Re: Up-Firing Metronome in Larson Pyramid Style

Post by cressy »

Scott, what happened to those standmount things you built and brought to an early owston with the blue fostex drivers in? I seem to remember a double horn or something, they were about 6 inched wide by 18" tall.
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#192 Re: Up-Firing Metronome in Larson Pyramid Style

Post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

Scottmoose wrote: Sat Feb 18, 2017 6:31 pm Sorry to hear that Steve. Pathetic indeed. When people resort to personal insults, it generally tells you something. I'm glad you ignored it though; always the way forward. :)

I hadn't heard about your research, but it's great you've got something so successful. And I entirely agree that hi-fi needs to expand and pay more attention to what mass-market consumers want if it wants to grow, or even survive. I've been making that point for a long time (years), as have many others. However, style being the fickle thing it is, not everyone wants the same thing; you get buyers who like the very heavily sculpted designs, but you get others who prefer something more traditional too. There's room for all tastes; depends on the target market since nothing's ever likely to receive universal acceptance. Same for wide-baffe designs. I'm rather fond of them myself & have designed a good number, e.g. Milevia & Dimitri, but not everyone can use them since they haven't the wall-space available (me included). I've got one up my sleeve that I'd love to do at some point, but time & money tend to get in the way. ;)

Re voicing, in general I think you're correct: most speakers, and certainly most in the UK given our usually limited room sizes should be designed with a view to boundary loading and its effects on the response. A good number, in fairness, are, although not all of course. Which takes you back to the target market for a particular company or product is. Interesting though isn't it?
Are you telling us some people are not looking for best enjoyment of their music :roll: hi-fi bullshit in a bubble. You are explaining one of the main things wrong with our industry / hobby.
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#193 Re: Up-Firing Metronome in Larson Pyramid Style

Post by Thermionic Idler »

Speaking of Ken Kessler has anyone ever seen the film "Ruthless People"? One of the main characters was called Ken Kessler and he worked in a hifi shop. I often wonder how many who've seen the film get the reference.

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#194 Re: Up-Firing Metronome in Larson Pyramid Style

Post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

"Pathetic indeed. When people resort to personal insults, it generally tells you something."

I cannot address what I see as the problem without referring to you as you are the problem. You have got caught in the trap of the process taking over from the result and being more important. You judge yourself on how complicated you can make it as it seems to you to make your ego more inflated.
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#195 Re: Up-Firing Metronome in Larson Pyramid Style

Post by Scottmoose »

cressy wrote: Sat Feb 18, 2017 6:41 pm Scott, what happened to those standmount things you built and brought to an early owston with the blue fostex drivers in? I seem to remember a double horn or something, they were about 6 inched wide by 18" tall.
Oh blimey, that's going back a bit! :) They're basically a horn loaded reflex variation. I designed them as a matching single-driver surround & centre-channel for a startup company in the US called CarderSound. Sadly, Jeff had the rotten luck to launch his company almost literally a day before the bottom fell out of the market in 2008, so not surprisingly, it didn't survive very long. You can see some of the finished ones in the attached. The ones at Owston weren't ideal as the cabinet was designed for the Fostex 127, and I only had a pair of 126s to hand, but the basic design type is sound & works nicely. To be honest, I haven't had the heart to do much with single-driver speakers since Dave was hospitalised last November. He's a great friend & a good number of the wideband speakers I've done over the years have been co-productions with him doing the drawing & offering suggestions, and ChrisB giving additional thoughts & doing the early prototype builds. Still, he's nothing if not a fighter, & he's making progress. Slow, but probably a better thing, long term than pushing things too far.
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