NEW MarkAudio Alpair 12P Gen2 paper coned drivers.
#17
Toppsy wrote:Zia,
it's in the 'Pencil' rang size wise, so a small floorstander. That's all I can say. Certainly NOT in the range of the big BVR speakers and a double mouth horn it certainly aint.
Well, as noted in a prior post above, the (by now) "conventional" SuperPensil is no slouch, although the short height cabinet does place the driver a little low - a simple trestle base (4" or so) would probably fix that.
Jeff hasn't had the chance to put the parts together that we cut out 2 weeks ago - something about "yard work"
#18
Chrisby wrote
Scott got back to me saying that wouldn't work as the design relied on the port opening being close to floor to achieve good base lift, or something on those lines. Anyway, Scott agreed as spec'd the driver would be a little too low so he has gone away to have a think how to get around this. Knowing Scott's design prowess I'm sure he will come up with a solution. So for now I only have a small standmount waiting in the wings for my pair A12P's.
Just my thoughts when Scott sent me the prototype specs with dims. So when I drafted up a set of plans I incorporated a small false base, filled with white polystyrene foam block, to bring the height of the driver nearer to seated ear level.Well, as noted in a prior post above, the (by now) "conventional" SuperPensil is no slouch, although the short height cabinet does place the driver a little low - a simple trestle base (4" or so) would probably fix that.
Scott got back to me saying that wouldn't work as the design relied on the port opening being close to floor to achieve good base lift, or something on those lines. Anyway, Scott agreed as spec'd the driver would be a little too low so he has gone away to have a think how to get around this. Knowing Scott's design prowess I'm sure he will come up with a solution. So for now I only have a small standmount waiting in the wings for my pair A12P's.
#19
Colin, Chris,
I am curious - when it comes to driver height we seem to prefer something closer to ear height (when seated of course). A full-range driver with good dispersion characteristics - how much is it likely to suffer by being placed 4 inches down?
- Zia
I am curious - when it comes to driver height we seem to prefer something closer to ear height (when seated of course). A full-range driver with good dispersion characteristics - how much is it likely to suffer by being placed 4 inches down?
- Zia
#21
I think this is often down to personal preference.
I like the sound to come from a little above ear height, to give it a more live-on-stage feel.
4" down compared to normal listening distance will make a tiny angle, so HF response is unlikely to suffer.
I like the sound to come from a little above ear height, to give it a more live-on-stage feel.
4" down compared to normal listening distance will make a tiny angle, so HF response is unlikely to suffer.
#23
Hi Zia,
Nothing on that particular design yet unfortunately. I believe it requires a total rethink to get the concept to work in a taller box so I wouldn't hold your breath. I'll ask Scott though if any progress.
In the meantime to get these drivers in a working box I am going to build a small vented standmount speaker that Scott designed for this driver. I'll feature this build when I find the time next month.
Nothing on that particular design yet unfortunately. I believe it requires a total rethink to get the concept to work in a taller box so I wouldn't hold your breath. I'll ask Scott though if any progress.
In the meantime to get these drivers in a working box I am going to build a small vented standmount speaker that Scott designed for this driver. I'll feature this build when I find the time next month.
#24
you may have seen my own and StevenZ's comments on this subject at DIYAudio forum - neither of us found the lower height to be a huge issue, although Jeff Willing did notice a decrease in LF output when raised on a 4" trestle basszman wrote:Colin, Chris,
I am curious - when it comes to driver height we seem to prefer something closer to ear height (when seated of course). A full-range driver with good dispersion characteristics - how much is it likely to suffer by being placed 4 inches down?
- Zia
tilting the entire cabinet (5` does seem to be a golden number for that) would likely be a reasonable compromise
#25
A redesign complicates things. But we all know Scott to be a creative kind of guy . In the meantime, from what we are hearing from folks who've built them, the Pensil and Super Pensil for the Alp 12P are winners.Toppsy wrote:Hi Zia,
Nothing on that particular design yet unfortunately. I believe it requires a total rethink to get the concept to work in a taller box so I wouldn't hold your breath. I'll ask Scott though if any progress.
Hmmm... that's interesting, but would have loved to hear your impressions with a Pensil/Super Pensil - you've been on a roll with Dales and the differences in presetation would have been interesting to know.Toppsy wrote: In the meantime to get these drivers in a working box I am going to build a small vented standmount speaker that Scott designed for this driver. I'll feature this build when I find the time next month.
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#26
Can you picture going up to a flortist and saying. "Sorry love can you lean back 5 degrees", or "just stand on this 4in box so I can get into the sweet spot?"chrisby wrote: you may have seen my own and StevenZ's comments on this subject at DIYAudio forum - neither of us found the lower height to be a huge issue, although Jeff Willing did notice a decrease in LF output when raised on a 4" trestle bass
tilting the entire cabinet (5` does seem to be a golden number for that) would likely be a reasonable compromise
"Two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I am not yet completely sure about the universe." – Albert Einstein
#27
zman wrote
I have a mate who liked very much what he heard from the A12P's when they were in the open boxes whilst being run-in. He wants to come over my place when I have the small standmounts built to listen to these. If he likes those then the idea is to do a larger floorstaning speaker using the A12P with bass helper. Either a isobaric pair of 8" bass drivers or a couple 8" bass units wired in series mounted on the front baffle. As yet this is still in the 'ideas' to develop stage but will get built in one form or the other. This is apart from the floorstander design Scott originally proposed. So lots in the pipeline. It just takes time to do these things with all my other work commitments.
The difference would be like chalk and cheese. Very different presentations in sound completely and any comparisons, would in my opinion, be pointless. From my perspective I would gain nothing by building a pair of Scotts Pencils or Super Pencils for my A12P drivers as plans for these are freely available to the DIY community.Hmmm... that's interesting, but would have loved to hear your impressions with a Pensil/Super Pensil - you've been on a roll with Dales and the differences in presetation would have been interesting to know.
I have a mate who liked very much what he heard from the A12P's when they were in the open boxes whilst being run-in. He wants to come over my place when I have the small standmounts built to listen to these. If he likes those then the idea is to do a larger floorstaning speaker using the A12P with bass helper. Either a isobaric pair of 8" bass drivers or a couple 8" bass units wired in series mounted on the front baffle. As yet this is still in the 'ideas' to develop stage but will get built in one form or the other. This is apart from the floorstander design Scott originally proposed. So lots in the pipeline. It just takes time to do these things with all my other work commitments.
#28
zman wrote:
A redesign complicates things. But we all know Scott to be a creative kind of guy . In the meantime, from what we are hearing from folks who've built them, the Pensil and Super Pensil for the Alp 12P are winners.
Let's not aggressively second guess Scott on this, but here I go: extrapolating what I've heard from numerous of his and Dave's single driver designs over the past 5 or 6 years, I can't help but wonder about an Avebury style for this driver
That'd definitely not be a "too short" floorstander, and assuming the same height as Silbury(Alp10) & Avebury (original 12M) would centre the driver at 36", or 6" higher than the Pensil / Supers.
For those not relishing the thought of a 72" tall enclosure, it wouldn't be all that difficult to build a slanted Pensil - 5dg seems to have worked very well for the FH3 and the earlier Tysen - but if one was of a puckish inclination, build it at 3.97deg and call it a Pisa
yup - it's that slow at work today
cheers
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#29
Did those designs surface for the 12p? I just picked up a pair, and ultimately had them destined for a set of super pensils, but I'm open to new ideas
#30
Lorien,
Good to see you at this forum also - the DIY fever continues
IIRC these are the speakers that Colin built:
http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4362
And here is a link to the plans:
http://www.madisound.com/pdf/SmallRefle ... 191012.pdf
Good to see you at this forum also - the DIY fever continues
IIRC these are the speakers that Colin built:
http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4362
And here is a link to the plans:
http://www.madisound.com/pdf/SmallRefle ... 191012.pdf