Frugal Horn Mk3 builds

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Dave the bass
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Post by Dave the bass » Thu Sep 29, 2011 10:40 am

Aye, I've got a couple of Bailey Box clamps and a few clamps you can borrow Flopp's, no prob's.

I also have a hole saw, I'll check the dia.

DTB
"One pound of middle cut pork leg joint,
Stew my foot and call me Brenda".

aquapiranha
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Post by aquapiranha » Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:45 pm

Hi all. Can anyone say which drivers are the best to use here? ie. Alpair 7 or CHP 70? And I realise this is very subjective, but how would those who have heard them describe the sound? Many thangs guys. :D
Steve.

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Post by Toppsy » Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:59 pm

OK.
CHP70. - If you want more realism and a more natural sound to the singer particuarly female voice then this is the driver for you. It doesn't go as high as the other MA drivers but delivers a very smooth sound. Some like to use a Supertweeter to help extend the HF and add extra ambiance to the sound.

A7.3 - This is a slightly more refined and detailed driver and twice the price. However, it does not require any HF support and goes a little lower in the bass. It can handle more complex music a little better but is a very fragile cone. So if you have children with probing fingers the paper coned CHP would be best.

I personally like both drivers and depending on my mood could happily live with either in the FH3 speakers.

The only real test though is for you to listen to both.

I have a pair of A7.2 and Stratmangler who lives a 15-min drive from me has a pair FH3 with the CHP70 and Tweeter#3 placed on top acting as a supertweeter. I'm sure we could arrange a demo for you.

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Post by floppybootstomp » Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:16 pm

My Frugels with the CHP70's are pretty much run in now and I'm very happy with them, I think they sound great. Prior to them I was using a pair of KEF Crestas on floor stands and they do sound SO much better.

I was initially using them with a pair of 'Super Tweeters' but after lots of subjective listening now use the Frugel/CHP70's on their own, the difference imo is extremely minimal.

I was originally going to spray them black but the wood was so nice I applied several coats of varnish. I like the look of them but one of my daughter offspring commented when she saw them 'Hey dad, what are those? They look home made'. I replied, 'That's because, my little cherub, they are home made'.

Hmm.
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Post by aquapiranha » Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:44 pm

Thanks for the replies so far, very helpful. I am currently using Gennexxa LX-5's (the one with the Linæum tweeter). I have in the past used FE103's in small RLH as well as 206's in Sachiko's and also others sch as OB's. I would not describe myself as a bass head really but I do like a decent bass line when it should be there. I think if I decide to build some I would go for the paper cone, since I would only intend them as a stop-gap until I can afford some big Tannoys!

:D Steve
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Post by Toppsy » Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:04 pm

Steve,
if you are going for the paper cones then do consider the CSS EL70. This is a tweeked version of the original CHP70 made specific for CSS by MarkAudio. From what I read of this driver many prefer it to the original cream coned CHP70.

The original CHP70 is only available in limited numbers from Blue Planet Acoustic in Germany and has now been replaced by a new version. Though having said that so is the EL70 available whilst Bob at CSS has stock.

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Post by aquapiranha » Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:19 pm

Toppsy wrote:Steve,
if you are going for the paper cones then do consider the CSS EL70. This is a tweeked version of the original CHP70 made specific for CSS by MarkAudio. From what I read of this driver many prefer it to the original cream coned CHP70.

The original CHP70 is only available in limited numbers from Blue Planet Acoustic in Germany and has now been replaced by a new version. Though having said that so is the EL70 available whilst Bob at CSS has stock.
Cool! thanks. :D
Steve.

FLAC / Tripath / Fostex

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Post by planet10 » Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:26 pm

To add to what Colin has already outlined:

I've not heard CHP70 but have certainly heard lots of EL70 (and my tweaked & matched version EL70eN). Althou not having the finesse of the A7.3, this likely is what makes it a happier match to lesser amplifiers. The new CHP70.2 is, IMO, a step back from the 2 earlier paper cone 4". In an attempt to create a driver with vintage sound, the top 2 octaves are shelved down ~5 dB and preceded by a ~5 dB rise in the octave below that. By itself it sounds fine, but switch to an EL70 and you can hear what is missing -- the new Alpair6.2P on the other hand is a good example of a vintage sound, i quite like it.

If you want EL70, grab them now, Bob has less on hand than i do. If you want the delux version i'll likely be good for awhile.

There are other drivers too... the FE126En is the most efficient for those with small SE ampswhich have a synergy (neither Colin or I are overly fondof the stock drivers, but some 58% of the P10-hifi flat-paks have shipped with the tweaked version). There are a number of TBs, the W5-1611 (good bass, a bit of plasticy colouration), W4-1879 work (i have both, haven't tried the latter myself yet). The discontinued 5" version of the 1879 the W5-1772 should also work.

The CHR70 (any) works, my personal pref is for the paper cones. FF125wk, FE127e, FE108eS work. The FF125wk giving a bit of efficiency to FE126 but better sonically IMO.

Speculation is that a number of Twin 3" should work (a generalization -- sacrifice of bass, good treble)

dave

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Post by planet10 » Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:28 pm

lack of sleep?
Last edited by planet10 on Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by aquapiranha » Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:38 pm

Hi Dave, thanks for the extra info. You qouted yourself there, was there something else you wanted to say?

Steve
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Dave the bass
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Post by Dave the bass » Mon Mar 19, 2012 12:33 pm

I've got our-GrandPop's MDF built FH3's on loan for the moment. I've got my faithful ol' Fostex Blue's in them. They're set up in a room upstairs. Very very very impressed with them in this little room where I've managed to get them into proper corners and no settee's to battle with. SE 6EM7 suit's them very well IMO. WDKEL34, less so.

I'm tempted to make a pair in Ply for myself. Nice.

DTB
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Stew my foot and call me Brenda".

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Post by Toppsy » Mon Mar 19, 2012 1:28 pm

That's good to hear Dave. Placed in corners , as the small Fostex require in this design, and with the right amp to drive them they are startling performers for what they are.

One bit of advise from one who has built the odd one or two of these speakers :wink: do use ply as you say but use 18mm rather than the thinner 15mm.

Another bit of advise: When you have one side panel cut and routed to shape use this as a former to route the second side panel, using a straight cut pattern follower router bit. That way they are both identical in shape.

http://www.rutlands.co.uk/workshop-&-po ... rs/pattern

EDIT
Dave,

Email me and I'll send you the latest set of plans for the FH3. PDF file is too large for me to attach to this thread and I cannot now locate in which thread DaveD posted up the plans on DIYAudio web pages.

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Dave the bass
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Post by Dave the bass » Mon Mar 19, 2012 1:45 pm

Yep, I'd use 18mm BB ply for these, 1 sheet so it's a pretty cheap build too, I like!

Thanks for the follower-bit tip. I've got one of those. I've also got Phils pair of FH3's to copy the curve too (which is handy!) :-)

DTB
"One pound of middle cut pork leg joint,
Stew my foot and call me Brenda".

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Dave the bass
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Post by Dave the bass » Mon Mar 19, 2012 1:49 pm

Toppsy wrote:
EDIT
Dave,

Email me and I'll send you the latest set of plans for the FH3. PDF file is too large for me to attach to this thread and I cannot now locate in which thread DaveD posted up the plans on DIYAudio web pages.
Cheers for the offer Colin but I've already got the latest 25th Feb 2012 updated plans from DIY Audio.

This linky? http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-ran ... ost2923050

DTB
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Stew my foot and call me Brenda".

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Post by Toppsy » Mon Mar 19, 2012 1:57 pm

Dave, just beware if copying Grandads speakers they are 15mm or less MDF, yes. :?:

You'll find the dimensions for most all panels are different for 18mm thick ply. Do check the plans first. It's easy enough to bend a piece of ½" timber to the curve required on one side panel and use this with your pattern cutting router bit to get the first side curve. Remember this curved shape is functional in the design. But having checked the plans the curve is the same radius regardless of material thickness you just need to take account of the the depth of the side panels at top and bottom of the curve.

I got caught out with this as all my templates are for 18mm ply and I used these for a flat pack kit where the guy insisted on 15mm ply. Took me a while to figure out why it all wouldn't go together. :oops:

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