Ittok/new cartridge

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guy
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#1 Ittok/new cartridge

Post by guy »

Hi folks,

Just looking for a range of suggestions:

I have an LP12/Ittok/Dynavector DV20X playing in to an NVA phono2/ P50/ A40's and Rega Ela mk1's. I think that the DV20x is at the end of its life (sound is getting a bit distorted/on edge, particularly higher frequencies) and I am looking for non partisan advice.

So:
1/ What recommendations for a replacement cartridge - I have used, and loved, a 10x5 in the past, but I understand that it is now ~ £500 :shock:
I don't think that a DV20x2 would be in my budget.

2/ re tip? either the 20x or an old Ortofon MC25FL that I have somewhere in the loft.

3/ Most important (and the reason that I am posting here- I may even start another thread about the Ittok): Once I have decided on the replacement, how much credibility is there in the accepted thought/recommendation that the Ittok must be removed from the deck in order to replace the cartridge in order to avoid damaging the Ittok bearings (I must say that I am a little skeptical about this one). I know what the Linn forum advice would be, but I can't quite believe that the bearings are that delicate, I would be pleased to see any reasoned explanation or evidence to support the idea that fixing a cartridge in situ would completely screw the bearings.

Please, no "advice" about junking the LP12 or Ittok and buying a classic Amstrad turntable with equiponderate platter or some such bollocks. I like my LP12.

All the best. Guy.
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cressy
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#2 Re: Ittok/new cartridge

Post by cressy »

Hi guy, the remove the arm business is a load of bollocks.
The only reason to take the arm off is to avoid the possibility of upsetting the suspension, and this is remote as it is. There is no way that any damage could be done to the bearings unless you were particularly brutal in handling it
As long as you take your time, and take the outer platter off so the suspension jams the subchassis up against the underside of the top plate ( this will make things alot easier as the arm board wont be bouncing the arm around as you work on it) it's the same as any other deck to change a cart. Though that's probably what you thought anyway
Cheers ant
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Thermionic Idler
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#3 Re: Ittok/new cartridge

Post by Thermionic Idler »

How much are you looking to spend?

In terms of affordable options, I was VERY impressed with Steve C's Audio Technica AT440MLB that I heard recently - tracks perfectly - £130 for a cartridge with a micro line stylus is a steal, it resolved more detail from quite a demanding LP in my collection, than I've heard from some much more expensive moving coils.

But - and here's the big but - it was on a Mayware arm which is a unipivot with much less effective mass, generally a completely different beast to the Ittok. So that's probably not helpful.

I've become a convert to Van den Hul cartridges, MC's that actually track properly - but they unfortunately don't come cheap. So that's probably not helpful either.

Other than that - I've heard good noises out of Ortofon's MC's, maybe try the Quintet model that comes within budget?
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#4 Re: Ittok/new cartridge

Post by cressy »

Check out the audio technica at-f7, 230 quid and not at all like their older at carts... I.e it's not screechy. Worked very nicely in my modified rb251 until I broke it.
The new a t range seems a million miles away from their old stuff
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#5 Re: Ittok/new cartridge

Post by Rudolph Hucker. »

atf5
oc5
oc7
oc9

all utter junk..avoid like the plague..
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#6 Re: Ittok/new cartridge

Post by Rudolph Hucker. »

Thermionic Idler wrote:How much are you looking to spend?

In terms of affordable options, I was VERY impressed with Steve C's Audio Technica AT440MLB that I heard recently - tracks perfectly - £130 for a cartridge with a micro line stylus is a steal, it resolved more detail from quite a demanding LP in my collection, than I've heard from some much more expensive moving coils.

But - and here's the big but - it was on a Mayware arm which is a unipivot with much less effective mass, generally a completely different beast to the Ittok. So that's probably not helpful.

I've become a convert to Van den Hul cartridges, MC's that actually track properly - but they unfortunately don't come cheap. So that's probably not helpful either.

Other than that - I've heard good noises out of Ortofon's MC's, maybe try the Quintet model that comes within budget?
yep VDH are the dogs danglies..
get yaself a frog or mc1 special
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Nick
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#7 Re: Ittok/new cartridge

Post by Nick »

You could always get VDH to retip the DV20x
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#8 Re: Ittok/new cartridge

Post by jayman67 »

guy wrote:2/ re tip? either the 20x or an old Ortofon MC25FL that I have somewhere in the loft.
id do that,its a great cartridge!
guy
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#9 Re: Ittok/new cartridge

Post by guy »

cressy wrote:Hi guy, the remove the arm business is a load of bollocks.
The only reason to take the arm off is to avoid the possibility of upsetting the suspension, and this is remote as it is. There is no way that any damage could be done to the bearings unless you were particularly brutal in handling it
......Though that's probably what you thought anyway
Cheers ant
Thanks for that - I must admit that I have wondered about bearing damage through changing the cartridge. I think that I would be more likely to damage the arm by removing it from the deck!

Also I don't want to take the deck to a dealer for something that should be relatively simple.
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#10 Re: Ittok/new cartridge

Post by guy »

Budget approx. £300 (not sure how much "trade in " Ortofon give if I were to stay with their range).

I haven't stepped inside a dealers for years - do the do enough vinyl business now to be able to offer cartridge comparisons?
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#11 Re: Ittok/new cartridge

Post by Rudolph Hucker. »

denon dl304?

one of the best needles i have ever used..not a hint of harshness
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#12 Re: Ittok/new cartridge

Post by DSJR »

I was never a fan of the DV20X series, much preferring the 17D models which worked well in the LP12-Ittok. With Ela's though, the hf would take fillings out I fear. Dynavector's have dramatically increased in price over the last fifteen years (all but doubled I fear), so out of their league in my book...

Do please consider the Hana models. Not just me, they seem to be growing in popularity with a well tempered character. The DL304 is great in a Rega RB tonearm, but I'm not sure about stability in an Ittok on ripply warps - a hunch, that's all.
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#13 Re: Ittok/new cartridge

Post by Ali Tait »

As Nick says, if you like the Dyna have it retipped. He had a 103r done by VDH and it sounded very good. Hana would perhaps be a good alternative, I believe Nick heard one and liked it enough to buy one. Not heard one myself but I read good things about them.
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Thermionic Idler
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#14 Re: Ittok/new cartridge

Post by Thermionic Idler »

It may also be worth contacting Expert Stylus in the UK to see how much they charge for a retip - if you liked your current DV20x before the sound began going south.

Also - Peak Hi Fi do a microscope stylus inspection and assessment service for quite a reasonable price, though given the fact you've heard a deterioration, I suspect they'll just tell you what you already know.

Cartridge comparisons - sadly, these are a real problem - in my experience nigh on impossible these days, I think about the only way to compare cartridges is to go to a hi-fi show, and even then you've got the variable of different arms / decks / speaker systems etc - but someone somewhere should have an LP12/Ittock set up. I ended up buying my VdH last year on the back of a visit to the Hi Fi Wigwam show at Scalford. I'd been needing to refresh my cartridge for some time but didn't have a clue what to get, whether to buy new or retip etc. Never really considered VdH before as they had a reputation for being a bit sterile. I visited a room where the chap was running a 12" PU7 (same arm as mine) which had a Black Beauty on it, and it sounded comprehensively better than every other cartridge I'd heard that day - detailed, organic, zero distortion. I asked him what it cost and when he told me the full retail price I thought "ah good, so completely out of my league then". However, turns out he got his from a broker in the Netherlands at a pretty substantial discount, and I subsequently got mine via the same route. By the time I'd auctioned off my two worn out Koetsus it was more than paid for. I still get scared by the nude stylus though.
Deck: Garrard 301 - Audio Origami PU7 - NW Analogue DH3S
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Nick
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#15 Re: Ittok/new cartridge

Post by Nick »

If you want to find out about getting a VDH retip, I can find out for you though Longdog.
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