Squeezebox Touch basics.

I think we all know by now what this section is for.
Neal
Shed dweller
Posts: 2299
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 10:57 am
Location: From the land of the Bodgers

#196

Post by Neal »

There's been an interesting thread over on AOS about files based streaming and FLAC vs WAV sound quality....putting any real or imagined differences aside it was doubly interesting to note that streaming FLAC to the SB actually uses less CPU than streaming WAV.

This seems to be down to less NIC handling IE: fewer packets required with FLAC... I checked out my SB and it seems to be true, I also checked by using a USB mem stick and noted that in this case FLAC then used more CPU time (about 5%) than WAV....

Still can't tell any difference between the two! ;)
User avatar
Ali Tait
Eternally single
Posts: 4373
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:10 pm
Location: Galashiels

#197

Post by Ali Tait »

Nah, me either.
User avatar
andrew Ivimey
Social Sevices have been notified
Posts: 8307
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:33 am
Location: Bedford

#198

Post by andrew Ivimey »

I wish I could - it doesn't seem right somehow ;-)
Philosophers have only interpreted the world - the point, however, is to change it. No it isn't ... maybe we should leave it alone for a while.
Lee S
Old Hand
Posts: 664
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2007 9:39 am
Location: UK

#199

Post by Lee S »

Why would you be able to tell the difference? FLAC is a LOSSLESS compression format.... once decompressed it will be a bit-for-bit identical stream to the WAV data. I think that anyone that says they can hear a difference is away with the fairies IMO... :lol:
©2020 Lee
User avatar
Mike H
Amstrad Tower of Power
Posts: 20157
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 5:38 pm
Location: The Fens
Contact:

#200

Post by Mike H »

:lol:
 
"No matter how fast light travels it finds that the darkness has always got there first, and is waiting for it."
User avatar
Ray P
No idea why I do this anymore
Posts: 6294
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:18 pm
Location: Somerset

#201

Post by Ray P »

On some other forums I've seen lengthy discussions around 'additional data stored between the binary digits (bits). The argument goes something along the lines that as bits on a hard disk, for example, are essentially recorded as analogue signals (they work on thresholds, along the lines of below 1V = 0, above 1V = 1) then it is possible to have a sort of not quite a 0 or 1 inbetweeny sort of state that can hold extra detail. I don't know what planet these people inhabit.

Ray
User avatar
The Stratmangler
Shed dweller
Posts: 2890
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 1:50 pm
Location: Rossendale, Lancashire

#202

Post by The Stratmangler »

Ray P wrote:I don't know what planet these people inhabit
The same place as Bjork ....

Chris :happy3:
User avatar
Nick
Site Admin
Posts: 15707
Joined: Sun May 06, 2007 10:20 am
Location: West Yorkshire

#203

Post by Nick »

Ahh, well, that reminds me, in my youth, I spent a lot of time reverse engineering the disk controllers on Apple IIe computers, with the aim of "understanding" the copy protection schemes in use at the time. Most of them did much like you describe as not existing, they recorded data between the actual data bits such that the standard disk reading code would not notice, but the first thing the software did was replace the disk i/o routines so it could check if the extra information was there, if it was the software ran as normal. Copy the disk using the normal disk copy utility, it didnt see the extra information, so the copy would know it was a copy and would refuse to run.
Whenever an honest man discovers that he's mistaken, he will either cease to be mistaken or he will cease to be honest.
User avatar
andrew Ivimey
Social Sevices have been notified
Posts: 8307
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:33 am
Location: Bedford

#204

Post by andrew Ivimey »

Danish television books eh! - you shouldn't let poets lie to you!

shhhhhhhhh! its so quiet ....
Philosophers have only interpreted the world - the point, however, is to change it. No it isn't ... maybe we should leave it alone for a while.
User avatar
ed
retired
Posts: 5384
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 4:01 pm
Location: yorkshire
Contact:

#205

Post by ed »

Awww, I'd forgotten, shame on me, liitle bjork, aka Sybil Ant

she still makes my toes curl up
There's nowhere you can be that isn't where you're meant to be
User avatar
Dave the bass
Amstrad Tower of Power
Posts: 12273
Joined: Tue May 22, 2007 4:36 pm
Location: NW Kent, Darn Sarf innit.

#206

Post by Dave the bass »

She's bonkers. I think she's great.

DTB
"The fat bourgeois and his doppelganger"
User avatar
Ray P
No idea why I do this anymore
Posts: 6294
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:18 pm
Location: Somerset

#207

Post by Ray P »

Nick wrote:Ahh, well, that reminds me, in my youth, I spent a lot of time reverse engineering the disk controllers on Apple IIe computers, with the aim of "understanding" the copy protection schemes in use at the time. Most of them did much like you describe as not existing, they recorded data between the actual data bits such that the standard disk reading code would not notice, but the first thing the software did was replace the disk i/o routines so it could check if the extra information was there, if it was the software ran as normal. Copy the disk using the normal disk copy utility, it didnt see the extra information, so the copy would know it was a copy and would refuse to run.
Well, strictly speaking I didn't say it didn't exist, after all you can change thresholds and timing easily enough. What I said is that some people claim the inbetweeny 'bits' hold additional musical information that changes the sound quality - I wonder where the additional information comes from?

Ray
User avatar
Mike H
Amstrad Tower of Power
Posts: 20157
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 5:38 pm
Location: The Fens
Contact:

#208

Post by Mike H »

That doesn't make sense, bits are contiguous, you can't insert more in between and 'vague' ones will interpret as 'bad disk' / unreadable :?:
 
"No matter how fast light travels it finds that the darkness has always got there first, and is waiting for it."
User avatar
ed
retired
Posts: 5384
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2007 4:01 pm
Location: yorkshire
Contact:

#209

Post by ed »

just musing, but......


It occurred to me there might be some abiguousness here between two different things, maybe...the vagueness thing, i.e vague bits between contigeous used bits may be in the realms of quantum....and is probably wierd.....

on the other hand, as Nick pointed out, there may be bits that are ordinarily unused, which are taken advantage of by unscrupulous pieces of code, e.g most repetetive memory move instructions(low level) work on byte and word boundaries, and if some parts of a byte or word are unused then the unused bits can be used without advertising the fact. A word(16bits for example) may only ever hold the integer numbers 0-255...so what do you do with the top order 8 bits....answer, you smuggle data in them
There's nowhere you can be that isn't where you're meant to be
Neal
Shed dweller
Posts: 2299
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 10:57 am
Location: From the land of the Bodgers

#210

Post by Neal »

You can write data slightly off track center and also into track areas not normally accessible, never heard of being able to write in-between magnetic domains though. There are also areas on the disk outside of the normal block addresses presented to the outside world that can be used to write codes and signatures, this is what Apple did with their Apple SCSI drives as we used to take...cough...standard distribution Quantum drives and errr....apply 'Apple' certification to them and sell them on. ;)
Post Reply