Bought Altec Lancing and Sugden Monoblocks £100

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Paul Barker
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#1 Bought Altec Lancing and Sugden Monoblocks £100

Post by Paul Barker »

couldn't get the Dual turntable or the vinyl.
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Last edited by Paul Barker on Tue May 27, 2014 9:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#2

Post by Paul Barker »

bit large for bookshelf

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#3

Post by Paul Barker »

At least the Spider of the 12" unit is intact. Maybe a generic 12" foam will work.
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#4

Post by Paul Barker »

Midrange also needs refoam
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#5

Post by Paul Barker »

Crossover is hardly trixy
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#6

Post by Paul Barker »

"Sugden C51 Control Unit (Pre-Amplifier) (1967-1980)

The C51 is a fully comprehensive, highly sophisticated control unit of advanced specification using silicon transistors throughout. Designed initially for use in conjunction with the A51 stereophonic power amplifier and then the P51. Important features included, low distortion, wide frequency range, excellent high signal to noise ratio, special input facilities and the elimination of the mains transformer, enabling the control unit to be mounted in close proximity to a low output magnetic cartridge, power being derived from the main amplifier.

Sugden P51 Mono/Stereo Power Amplifier (1967-1980)

The original P51 in stereo set up has power output of 45 watts RMS per channel into 8 ohms both channels operating. The amplifier is of dual mono construction with a common power transformer. In mono configuration (i.e. two amplifiers in bridge mode) the power output increases to 100 watts RMS per channel.

Today the C51/P51 combination are regarded as reference and are almost impossible to purchase."

Pleased to get these for £100 with blown speakers all together.

Bridging the amps so 100 watts per channel. Haven't discovered what proportion in class A but probably 40 watts with them bridged like this.
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#7

Post by Ali Tait »

Nice Paul, How so they sound?

I have a wooden sleeve A21 in the cupboard.
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#8

Post by Paul Barker »

They sound very 1970's.

The problem with giving them a fair evaluation is that

1/ those drive units in Ed's lovely speaker cabinets are neither use nor ornament.

2/ is it 7 pin din? I forget the number of pins, and bell wire for speakers? I've seen less tarnish and verdegris on the 1960's cylinder unions. Spent first few hours plugging and unplugging to get rid of powerfull hum and mighty pops cracks scratches and whistles. But they settled down to a reasonable level of background noise for the era that they are from. today the "noise" wouldn't pass muster.

3/ the mush in push to release selectors in the tuner push in and stay there. Managed to get all but the AFC back out again.

But hampered in so many ways I was able to detect a distinct advantage of the monoblock with bags of back up power, running at the first watt level. Actually there is far too much power for my home scenario.

The extra available power for bass etc is definately an advantage. (I think these rate at 100 watts per channel bridged like this)

The extra seperation of the monoblock method (which I know quite a few here have recently enjoyed) does provide some careful and acurate positioning of instrements. Yes there is a soundstage, there is imaging. Despigght all that grunge to fight through of the noisy connectors and cables backed up with overpowerful amps, which makes for some embarrasing loud thumps and pops. My usual monitor for when I have the music too loud is when the lodger in the flat underneath says to his Mrs "fer fooks sake". I think I confused him last night, it was all quiet. But through the noise the msuic didn't ask for, there is definately a sense of quality.

But when I went back into the main system with the humble Pioneer it was nothing short of a relief. That pioneer has the voicing so well, contols the bass of these particular system so well that the cabinets completely disapear, shut you eyes and you have no concept of a source for the sound the speakers don't fight for attention. Collin did a really good job on these speakers. I just hadn't found an amp worthy of them. The key to this design of speaker (for my money, but what do I know about speaker design) is you can't control the bass sufficiently enough. the whole problem with this type of box is trying to make it work on a low powered SE valve amp. FORGET it. change speaker design. End of. And that must be why we guys seem to be the only ones making the kind of speakers we do.

So anyway, maybe today a chance to find out how the Suggies sound on those speakers while I am waiting in for a boiler to be delivered. Be just my luck it comes at 7.30 am and I have to go to work without an excuse.

There'll be another chance.

Can I just order some solvent to spray on all these din connectors to clean them up? Otherwise if these connectors would get changed for phono if I were using this in my main listening life. Which I can't discount.

Read somewhere they drive Q57's better than any Quad amp! :wink:
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#9

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On the power amps what does L.T. stand for where the din connectors go in it says input and L.T.?

I had to guess at the connections for biamping, got it right first time by guess work.

The serial numbers of the amps are different enough to consider original owner bought one and saved up for the other.

His wife said that he had been around lately looking to see if there was anything he should replace it all with and came home reporting "they don't sound any better than what we have".

That must have been before the foam surrounds decayed.

I was servicing her fire and boiler last night and said "I was admiring your Altec speakers, I am sure that is a good make" she was all like I am taking it all to the dump. I am like "where is the nearest cash point? I'll give you a £100 and take it all away for you!" Whilst at cash point I am fighting my conscience "get £200 out Paul give her £200" "shut up conscience you've seen those programs on telly they have to buy cheap to make a living, and anyway you are gambling on them being any good, you need to at least double your money even if they aren't that good" "OK you win" Handed over £100.

I think I hit it OK she was on her way to the dump with it after all.

Guys this is the future of your stuff you realise!
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#10

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I remember turning up to service boiler in a luxury flat in Scarborough next door to where they film "The Royal" just as big a building the gadger and his brother own the lot. He is a Barrister main dwelling Leeds. Anyway see some huge ancient Tannoys no longer connected.

I am like "do you want to sell the old speakers?" (emphasis on old)

NOPE, don't try playing verbal tennis with a Barrister or try reading his mind or hiding your thoughts.

Defeated in a glance. "I'll let myself out!"
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#11

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Damn, delivery arrived.
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#12

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OK I been naughty I popped home between jobs.

The Sugden's take it.

you didn't expect the Panasonic to beat something which a reviewer wrote

"Today the C51/P51 combination are regarded as reference and are almost impossible to purchase".

So what are the differences?

More bass, and a something which was with the Panasonic I hadn't noticed, a grating tone was foremest on female vocals which the Sugdens have shown me isn't in the recording. The Panasonic was adding something which grates a little. I hadn't spotted that. Tis is a problem with the Pass 5 aswell, because that is the area where the Panasonic beat he Pass, in female voicing. I thought the Panasonic was more relaxed in this such an important area. The PAss 5 is superior in just so many ways but this one failed area is enough to give listener fatigue. It is so close to contending and much batter at many things like space and imaging. But the amp which gets the gradations of tone in the upper mids wins the prize, the Sugden's do that without having to listen attentively to seak it our.

So for tone and gradations and low level bass information the Sugdens take it.

For pasas razamatas copy of the valve amp overall sound but with better power and control the F5 takjes it, for all round ability with the one minor area of exception the upper mids the Panasonic has it.

But the gradations of tone across the spectrum and the exclusion of the hard edges in the female vocals, yet with less imaging razematas and valve amp emulation, the Sugdens earn their reputation as a "reference".

I am content with these.

Now this is played through crummy din leeds old and coated in verdigris, from a diabolical looking preamp which has tone controls and a balance control. We know nothing of the quality of the pots or caps or anything.

i would say a high quality attenuation alone in front of the Sugden monoblocks, converted to modern connectors and before you even look at the component choices inside such as resistors and caps, it is a worthy contender for a permanent place in my listening system.

Or to put it another way. The Sugden P51 monoblocks have found a home.

The Panasonic taught me to let go of an overall prejudice against BJT's without having lost I would never had given a second glance to the Sugden's in that ladies house last night.

Might now sell the Panasonic on eBay, they get more than £100. Anyone want to buy a Pass 5?

One important lesson? It doesn't have to be a Mosfet to be nearly as good as a valve. Don't dismiss the humble BJT.
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#13

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I am not saying all this is "better" than the road of building with valves.

But it is cheaper lighter easier smaller and not as far from ideal as I used to believe.

Valve amps have to be a lot more specific as Romey said just now on one of my threads, these amps seem better suited to the whole package approach.

Could I make a much better sound in key areas with valves. YES YES YES.

But is it worth it? Only you can answer that for yourself.

i have counted the cost as much as many here, my investemnt in valve direction runs into 10,s of thousands of pounds. Some of that investment I could claw back gradually maybe mitigate the overall extravegance.

If I had stumbled upon these 20 years ago I would be richer now and havee much more room at home in the sheds in the cellar and in the lockup.

I would be perfectly adequately endowed to reproduce the recorded sound within the reason any sane person might be content with..
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#14

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A word of warning.

If you live in a family home don't google images of Sugden

It's just one of those computer screens a husband and father is wrong to have arrived at however innocently. No explanation will save you. Fortunately I was alone. Must remember to delete my history for today!
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#15

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I have found two ladies who have had a profound affect upon my life.

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