Triangular speaker cabinets.

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Daniel Quinn
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#61 Re: Triangular speaker cabinets.

Post by Daniel Quinn »

perhaps if you sold them it would concentrate your mind as to which you think is the best :mrgreen:
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pre65
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#62 Re: Triangular speaker cabinets.

Post by pre65 »

Does there not have to be some monetary value associated with the "best" of anything ?

The best speakers I have ever heard are £46,600 new.

Very,very good, but good value for money ?
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Dr Bunsen Honeydew
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#63 Re: Triangular speaker cabinets.

Post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

Well Cressy there is an easy answer, temp seal the cabinet at your opening of the line, tell me what you hear. Listen to musical timing. I make no presumption, only what I think should happen.
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#64 Re: Triangular speaker cabinets.

Post by ed »

Dr Bunsen Honeydew wrote: Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:32 pm Well Cressy there is an easy answer, temp seal the cabinet at your opening of the line, tell me what you hear. Listen to musical timing. I make no presumption, only what I think should happen.
Ah ha, now you've really got me. Unless I totally misunderstand again the above is a theory...I'm confused
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#65 Re: Triangular speaker cabinets.

Post by Cressy Snr »

Daniel Quinn wrote: Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:18 pm perhaps if you sold them it would concentrate your mind as to which you think is the best :mrgreen:
The we are again, best is purely a subjective concept. It's the old "my dad's better than your dad" paradigm.
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#66 Re: Triangular speaker cabinets.

Post by Nick »

Ah ha, now you've really got me. Unless I totally misunderstand again the above is a theory...I'm confused
I think you will find its at best an hypothesis, we use the scientific meaning of the word theory around these here parts.
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#67 Re: Triangular speaker cabinets.

Post by Cressy Snr »

Right,

Tried blocking the ports and the bass disappeared.
There was also a tightness to the sound which I did not like at all, probably down to the Fs of the driver being pushed higher due to the pressure in the enclosure. Fs is 100Hz to start with so, there is little wonder that the results were as they were.

Was there any more speed and timing to the presentation? Yes they did sound a bit faster, but it wasn't night and day, in fact they ended up sounding uncannily like a pair of Linn Kans; but that's not praising them in any way; the worst of the flat earth IMO.
With the ports blocked, these things suddenly came to represent everything I have tried to get away from over the last twenty years.
Removing the port seals restored the balance and they became instantly more tonally full and far more relaxing to listen to.

Of course if that's what you want, fine, but then again I wouldn't have used these drivers if I was designing a sealed box speaker; Fs of 100Hz is far too high. There would need to be a complete redesign to restore the bass end.
A sealed Omnimet is certainly an idea for the future, but not with that driver.
What it does show however, is that making the right driver choice for the intended application is what it's all about.
Few drivers are designed these days for sealed box use, so weighting them with dope, to increase the cone mass and lower the resonant frequency to suit sealed box loading is probably the way to get the characteristics you want. Obviously there is more to Doc mods than that, but I would say to those detractors of The Doc's work. Dismiss the mods of hand at your peril. It would be your loss, because I see what he means.
Not for me with the drivers I have but....
Last edited by Cressy Snr on Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#68 Re: Triangular speaker cabinets.

Post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

I did not say it would make them better, they are designed for your way. I am trying to show you what goes wrong and is missing from a non sealed cabinet. So I was hoping to show you how musical timing improved and musical communication improved, but the other things that changed for the worse have stopped you listening. BTW are you sure you were air tight.
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#69 Re: Triangular speaker cabinets.

Post by Cressy Snr »

Yep, they were air tight. It became very difficult to push the driver cones down and they sprang back instantly. The ports were blocked with a piece of 3" square MDF sealed with a gasket made of blu tak.

As I said above I can see where coming from and with the right drivers, the sealed box method is capable of producing far better results than those bloody awful, ported pieces of cr*p that masquerade as hi-fi these days.
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#70 Re: Triangular speaker cabinets.

Post by ed »

Daniel Quinn wrote: Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:19 pm Nobody said it was a universal panacea for all designs .

the doc will be along any minute to argue - any design but acoustic suspension is fundamentally flawed and the wadding you report benefitting is merely masking the flaw inherent in the design :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

I see he beat me to it . :D
I will address this as the other chap doesn't seem to want to converse with me.....

I am aware that nobody said it was a universal panacea for all designs, I merely pointed that out.

Firstly, I and many others are unclear on the precise definition of acoustic suspension. Some say strictly closed box while others argue it's ported with some stuffing....I am open to a precise definition.

My own dabblings for what they are worth are limited to closed box, for which I see no reason for stuffing. I have run seas FA22 in 45 ltrs, and although not in omni mode as per cubes I have a feeling for it's capabilities...I have also run TB 4.5" in a 12 ltr sphere which is about optimum for that speaker in a closed box....

both these closed boxes have their merits, no argument there, but I much prefer other paradigms.

The other approach to acoustic suspension is mooted as ports with stuffing..I really can't comment as I haven't been there but there is chapter and verse on the web about why such pursuits have been dropped in the mainstream......I believe this is where the doc mods are hanging their hat(ported with stuffing), but I will probably be put right on this matter.

I can't be bothered to do it myself but I'm always open to listening to others....

BUT... I retain the right to question the statement 'any design but acoustic suspension is flawed' and I'd like to go on record stating that it is wrong!
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#71 Re: Triangular speaker cabinets.

Post by ed »

Nick wrote: Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:19 pm
Ah ha, now you've really got me. Unless I totally misunderstand again the above is a theory...I'm confused
I think you will find its at best an hypothesis, we use the scientific meaning of the word theory around these here parts.
You can say we if you like, but it doesn't include me....Venn will be turning in his grave
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Dr Bunsen Honeydew
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#72 Re: Triangular speaker cabinets.

Post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

I will try to talk to you if you try not to behave like an eeeediot.

There is only one definition of Acoustic Suspension and that was the way of the guy who first used the words and the way. Ed Villchur.

https://www.google.com/patents/US2775309
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#73 Re: Triangular speaker cabinets.

Post by cressy »

I thought the doc was talking to me so I blocked the ports on mine.
Interestingly, what happened to the omnimets isnt exactly the same as what happened to these. The first thing noticed was quite a drop in efficiency, no good with the pass f5.
Bass didn't go as low, as expected, but they did become noticably 'faster'. Perhaps these drivers have more compliant surrounds.
However the mid became abit lumpy for want of a better word.
Not to say that I didnt like the extra percieved speed, infact it has been quite a positive experience, inasmuch as my planned foray into ob territory looks more promising. That idea is to use a big sealed box for the bass and an ob for the mid and top.

Now it did take alot of time to fettle these speakers, done by listening to them and tweaking the inductor value to cut off the top of the 6" driver response, so perhaps they could be made sealed and the crossover values faffed with if i had a mind to.

Not that I will mess with these speakers, i dont want to lose what i have with them, but food for thought.

And they are tapered, going back to the original point of the thread......
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#74 Re: Triangular speaker cabinets.

Post by ed »

just had one of those memory moments...pertinent to the original thread subject

Steve Shiels and I attended the one and only diyaudio meet to be held in Britain. It was way back in the day. One of my most focussed memories was from a chap who had a pair of triangular cross section cabs for a Jordan JX thingy. The cabs were about 3 feet tall and each face was about 6 inches wide. Driver was about 6 inches from the top. All with fuzzy/focussed memory.

What I do remember was that they were the star of the show. The chap kept reminding us it was all about standing waves. Star of the show except myself and Steve that is.

I also remember using a similar approach for my Almo speakers which used a 6 sided line, and they were quite popular for a time.
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#75 Re: Triangular speaker cabinets.

Post by Scottmoose »

ed wrote: Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:42 pmBUT... I retain the right to question the statement 'any design but acoustic suspension is flawed' and I'd like to go on record stating that it is wrong!
As will I. You select which of the various compromises available best suits a given set of requirements. Unless we have moved into a different universe hitherto unknown to woman-born, there is no such thing as a perfect enclosure load or one devoid of compromise, and that includes the acoustic suspension box. It can provide excellent performance if used appropriately. So can many other types, though not necessarily in the same areas.
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