Cabinets are drawn up in CAD, simple build so I might try and get them made this week ready for the big arrival!
Humour me...
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pre65
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#32
Don't forget to radius the INSIDE of the speaker cutout. 
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
Edmund Burke
G-Popz THE easy listening connoisseur. (Philip)
Edmund Burke
G-Popz THE easy listening connoisseur. (Philip)
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simon
- Thermionic Monk Status
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#33
Hey, that's not very fair.StuG wrote:Hey, you guys are alright (for speaker geeks)
Wait till you want to build a valve amp, then you'll see we have a wide repertoire of geekiness
#34
Remember to follow the break-in instructions for the drivers.StuG wrote:Hey, you guys are alright (for speaker geeks)
Cabinets are drawn up in CAD, simple build so I might try and get them made this week ready for the big arrival!
I know you'll want to have a listen straight away, but when you do bear in mind that they're likely to get better for the first week - if you can, leave them playing radio all day at moderate volume, and see how the sound changes each evening.
Chris
#35
Regards the Alpair 7.3 drivers. Yes do follow the manufacturer break in for this driver and be aware the very thin aluminium cones are prone to damage easy so don't go poking fingers at the cones. If it hasn't been mentioned earlier in the thread the driver needs to be flush mounted so the front baffle needs to be 18mm. I wouldn't recommend building these speakers in anything thicker than 18mm though.
The only other observation I have regards this driver is it is very revealing of poor applification and source material. It really excels with a quality amp and recording.
You may wish to put a mesh shelf below the driver towards the exit port slot. Place some Dacron here to help fine tune the bass. But only add the Dacron after the driver has been run a week and adjust the amount to tune the bass by ear. Without this additional damping the A7.3 can be a little over bass in the FH3, especially if the speakers are placed in the corners of a room.
The only other observation I have regards this driver is it is very revealing of poor applification and source material. It really excels with a quality amp and recording.
You may wish to put a mesh shelf below the driver towards the exit port slot. Place some Dacron here to help fine tune the bass. But only add the Dacron after the driver has been run a week and adjust the amount to tune the bass by ear. Without this additional damping the A7.3 can be a little over bass in the FH3, especially if the speakers are placed in the corners of a room.
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Mike H
- Amstrad Tower of Power
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#37
Then you'll know all about itsimon wrote:Hey, that's not very fair.StuG wrote:Hey, you guys are alright (for speaker geeks)
Wait till you want to build a valve amp, then you'll see we have a wide repertoire of geekiness
"No matter how fast light travels it finds that the darkness has always got there first, and is waiting for it."
#38
ok i'm still waiting for the drivers to arrive, so I've been doing a bit of browsing which has thrown up a couple of questions.
I've seen questions regarding the high end clarity and the requirement for a tweeter. Now I know that i haven't even built them yet, but the internet does funny things to you.
People have mentioned that there will be a need for a sub for AV so are there any recommended subs to build that match the FH 3's?
Lastly, and this on is aspirational, are there any really high end builds that people aspire to in an ideal world kind of way?
I've seen questions regarding the high end clarity and the requirement for a tweeter. Now I know that i haven't even built them yet, but the internet does funny things to you.
People have mentioned that there will be a need for a sub for AV so are there any recommended subs to build that match the FH 3's?
Lastly, and this on is aspirational, are there any really high end builds that people aspire to in an ideal world kind of way?
#39
You're probably asking the wrong forum about subwoofers.
I've been nagging about them for a while, but setting them up in a room like Owston means they rarely give a good acount of themselves. My tapped horns did a half-decent job in that room, though they were let down somewhat by the small full-range driver trying get to 80Hz (too low for them, really, so they struggled).
Better sense of size here (Mr I is a well-known, calibrated, unit of height) :
Those particular cabinets would hit (just about) 25Hz, using a single 6" driver per side.
They'd also go plenty loud doing so - for laughs I set them up one each side of the sofa, played a couple of scenes from the Dark Knight. Wahey, the whole sofa vibrates.
The advantage with those is that they're very slim (just over 7" wide), so WAF is quite high.
Right.
WRT choosing a sub, I'd have a listen to the FH3s themselves first.
It takes a larger speaker to show they're actually missing anything - listening to them without having tried any other speakers would probably leave you satisfied of their bass: what they can do is a very good impression of deep bass. Its only when you hear the real thing that the little drivers leave you wanting.
Next up, once you've got a feel for the size and sound of the FH3s, consider the following questions
- how much space can you dedicate to subwoofers?
- how many subwoofers can you accomodate? distributed subwoofers can be used to iron out room effects at low frequencies - don't worry if it'll only be one: it'll be better than none
- how low do you realistically want to go? - there's content in movies down as low as 10Hz. A good 12" given 80L of cabinet will take you to 20Hz and go pretty loud.
40Hz is easy, 30Hz more difficult, 25Hz more difficult again, 20Hz needs something good, and 10Hz (about as low as I've heard of in movies) will require lots of very large speakers and cabinets. Find some good headphones, play some test tones. There are laws of diminishing returns at work here: there's no point in getting lots of 18" speakers if you have 2 movies that actually put them to good use. But at the same time, an 8" that's struggling to do what you want is a bit pointless, too.
- what's the budget?
- how loud do you want to go? - about cinema level? More, less? (this also links back to the How Low question - to get low and loud, you have to move lots of air - one or the other is easy).
- how much power do you have available? - subwoofers tend to be very inefficient (I'll tell you why in a mo), so tend to use very large amplifiers (think ~1kW) to make up for that.
Okay, subwoofers are always a compromise: small size, deep bass, efficient - pick any two.
My THs went deep, and were pretty efficient, but were huge for the driver I put in them. I rarely saw the "signal" (~=1w output) light come on on my amplifier.
The same drivers in their current cabinets (about 1/6 the size of the TH) only hit 40Hz, and will cheerfully soak up all 120w per side I can feed into them.
Here's some good reading to do on subwoofers.
http://sound.westhost.com/subcon.htm
http://sound.westhost.com/linkwitz-transform.htm
Probably advisable to read them in that order.
Its a lot to take on, but nobody said this'll be easy.
Chris[/b]
I've been nagging about them for a while, but setting them up in a room like Owston means they rarely give a good acount of themselves. My tapped horns did a half-decent job in that room, though they were let down somewhat by the small full-range driver trying get to 80Hz (too low for them, really, so they struggled).
Better sense of size here (Mr I is a well-known, calibrated, unit of height) :
Those particular cabinets would hit (just about) 25Hz, using a single 6" driver per side.
They'd also go plenty loud doing so - for laughs I set them up one each side of the sofa, played a couple of scenes from the Dark Knight. Wahey, the whole sofa vibrates.
The advantage with those is that they're very slim (just over 7" wide), so WAF is quite high.
Right.
WRT choosing a sub, I'd have a listen to the FH3s themselves first.
It takes a larger speaker to show they're actually missing anything - listening to them without having tried any other speakers would probably leave you satisfied of their bass: what they can do is a very good impression of deep bass. Its only when you hear the real thing that the little drivers leave you wanting.
Next up, once you've got a feel for the size and sound of the FH3s, consider the following questions
- how much space can you dedicate to subwoofers?
- how many subwoofers can you accomodate? distributed subwoofers can be used to iron out room effects at low frequencies - don't worry if it'll only be one: it'll be better than none
- how low do you realistically want to go? - there's content in movies down as low as 10Hz. A good 12" given 80L of cabinet will take you to 20Hz and go pretty loud.
40Hz is easy, 30Hz more difficult, 25Hz more difficult again, 20Hz needs something good, and 10Hz (about as low as I've heard of in movies) will require lots of very large speakers and cabinets. Find some good headphones, play some test tones. There are laws of diminishing returns at work here: there's no point in getting lots of 18" speakers if you have 2 movies that actually put them to good use. But at the same time, an 8" that's struggling to do what you want is a bit pointless, too.
- what's the budget?
- how loud do you want to go? - about cinema level? More, less? (this also links back to the How Low question - to get low and loud, you have to move lots of air - one or the other is easy).
- how much power do you have available? - subwoofers tend to be very inefficient (I'll tell you why in a mo), so tend to use very large amplifiers (think ~1kW) to make up for that.
Okay, subwoofers are always a compromise: small size, deep bass, efficient - pick any two.
My THs went deep, and were pretty efficient, but were huge for the driver I put in them. I rarely saw the "signal" (~=1w output) light come on on my amplifier.
The same drivers in their current cabinets (about 1/6 the size of the TH) only hit 40Hz, and will cheerfully soak up all 120w per side I can feed into them.
Here's some good reading to do on subwoofers.
http://sound.westhost.com/subcon.htm
http://sound.westhost.com/linkwitz-transform.htm
Probably advisable to read them in that order.
Its a lot to take on, but nobody said this'll be easy.
Chris[/b]
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Mike H
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#40
chris661 wrote:Better sense of size here (Mr I is a well-known, calibrated, unit of height) :
"No matter how fast light travels it finds that the darkness has always got there first, and is waiting for it."
#41
Thanks for the links Chris.
I've had a quick scan of the articles and there's a lot to take in given my starting point of knowing nothing. That said, i will go back and have another look to try and get a better understanding of what it's all about.
I a world full of coincidences, one of my clients was sounding me out on speaker building this week, turns out he is a bit of an audiophile and he was keen to chat about it. Anyway he's looking at these http://elitechoice.org/2009/05/09/boeni ... -speakers/
I think I'll stick to my FH's to start with!
I've had a quick scan of the articles and there's a lot to take in given my starting point of knowing nothing. That said, i will go back and have another look to try and get a better understanding of what it's all about.
I a world full of coincidences, one of my clients was sounding me out on speaker building this week, turns out he is a bit of an audiophile and he was keen to chat about it. Anyway he's looking at these http://elitechoice.org/2009/05/09/boeni ... -speakers/
I think I'll stick to my FH's to start with!
#42
I'm not certain of the legitimacy of some of their claims: 95dB @1w, to 20Hz, from a single 8" driver?
Seems unlikely.
Still, if they make him/her happy, then there's not much I can say.
You're welcome RE the links - if you've got any questions about something subwoofer-related, gimme a shout and I'll see if I can clarify things.
Seems unlikely.
Still, if they make him/her happy, then there's not much I can say.
You're welcome RE the links - if you've got any questions about something subwoofer-related, gimme a shout and I'll see if I can clarify things.
