Thorens TD150 and the Road to Vinyl Bliss

Love it or hate it, it just won't stop
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Mike H
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Postby Mike H » Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:52 pm

No I think what me and Nick mean (sorry, "Nick and I" :D) is attach the file(s) and upload when you start a new post. Like you would for a picture or diagram etc. Straight off where it's stored on your hard drive.

Only Nick was saying there's a kilobytes limit, which is why suggested ZIP'ing it to get the size down if that's the case.


.
 
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colin.hepburn
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Postby colin.hepburn » Fri Jul 24, 2009 4:27 am

colin.hepburn wrote:
Mike H wrote:
Nick wrote:If you can't you should be able to zip them up and attach, but there is a limit to the size.

Still waiting in suspenders!

Hi Mike

Still trying to figure out how to link them to here I need a FPT software I think to do it right :study:

Well Hi all again sorry
I gave up on downloading test sound file here too complicated you need FPT progs and your own website which I have not got at the moment working on it thou then you got to post a link to here to my website to much hassle anyways I have been busy with two other turntables my AR. EB101and the Rega parts Rebuild? First I am not sure where to post this one so it back in the thread Steve the shadow started Thorens TD150 and the road to vinyl bliss it’s a rocky ride intit Steve hope your lenco is doing the biss but I think I have got there thou but not with a DD drive or idlorTTs unless I come across a 401 I wish
OK so hear we go the thourns TD160B Is a pile of crap but it’s not the end for TD160 so left it a loan will come back to it later however here’s where I went next

Originally Posted by Col


Hi All
Well As most of you all will know by now my thornsTD160/rega /1042 is giving me problems now sure it’s to do with the VTA
So however I decided to breakout me old AR EB101 and rewired the stock AR arm with LITZ wire and new tags fitted the 1042 plugged in setup leveled the TT and away we go well to say I was staggered would be an under statement it was more like jaw dropping no sibilance ether I liked this AR TT when I first go it new some 12year ago and fitted it with an Audio-technica ATF3 cart rega felt mat mission Cyrus 2 /780 speakers OK so today’s setup is different but still didn’t expect this it just keeps on trucking
So thinking rebuilds
Using original motor / bearing/inner/outer platter
New stronger plinth/ acrylic subchasse and Linn or thorns springs allowing different arm boards Possible adding an acrylic platter to it later
What are the panels views on this idea
And what maybe be the outcome of the use of a acrylic as a sud-chassis

any other good plastics or some such thing that would work well some sort of wood perhaps
Image
And here we go with the rega
Well chaps got all the bits for the rega now to the rebuild thinking should be strat forward enough me thinks nope fitting the motor was a pain in the neck trying to line it up and secure it to the plinth Nipping up the screws just to find its wobbles all over the place anyway I oils it up sticks platter on for test run only too hear a slight scrapping sound and running slow turn out the pulley is set to high hitting the bottom of the platter and pulleyi was lose on the motor spindle so stripping it back out removing sticky felt pad refit the motor for now I just used a bit of paper to fit ithe pulley back on re test magic its running fine now??
OK now to the rega arm /goldring 1042
Well looking at it I see that the VTA will be a problem so sent email off too J7 sees if he had any spacer washer’s nope so of to my local Texas store see if I can find some washers this is a store that seems to sale every thing you don’t want but found some tap O rings plus some nylon spacers so go them turns out the O (ring fits spot on and centered the larger nylon spacer perfectly so the spacers are about 1 mm so with the 1042 cart 2mm would be about right but it turns out that 2mm spacer wont let me tighten up the rega arm nut though the rega planner 3 plinth thread is to short so just used 1mm leaves very little clearance between stylus tip and LP surface pleas note this is just a first run at it to get it going odd thou or does the rega rb300 have a longer thread

Got to doFind a better way to mount the motor a must plus revisit the rega spacer washers
OK so how does it sound?
Well I'm not very good at describing how a system sounds cloth ears I believe is the term but its sound is dull in respect of uninteresting compared to thorns TD160 and the AR EB101 the rega lacks that stop start timing speed of the TD 160/AR eb101 But to be fare work still has to be bune on it heres a pic or two
the bits
Image
fiting the motor
Image
And here we go
Image
Floyd likes the rega thou he says-its lay-ed back but he,s a blues fan
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colin.hepburn
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Postby colin.hepburn » Fri Jul 24, 2009 3:39 pm

HA Well when I said the rega sound is dull in respect of uninteresting compared to thorns TD160 and the AR EB101 well the rega sound was indeed dull and grey at first this is exactly what you here when you change out a resistor or cap in the single parth this grey/grainy sound is what you get during the burn-in process :shock: which changes for better or worse after some hours well oddly this is what happened to the rega its sounding very good now after a few hours burn-in or is it the rega that’s burning me in perhaps 8)
Will still have to remount the motor thou anyone got any suggestions
on a better way
Colin

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colin.hepburn
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Postby colin.hepburn » Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:39 pm

Hi All
Well Both the AR EB101/Rega 3 are working great now no sibilance well almost just a bit here and there on some albums which has probably been recorded on there by some unknown studio engineer even Suzanna Vegas Voice has improved she must be taking the tablets :shock:
So now just got to sort out the cartridge loading
Hopefully someone can advice me on the cartage loading on the WAD phone 2 as I have a goldring 1042 loading spec is load resistance of 47k load capacitance 150-200pf inductance 570mH
AS I want to optimize this cart loading by adjusting the values of R and C
So this meant metering the capacitance of the pickup lead from the cart tag back to the phone plug at the wad phono to check the capacitance of this lead
and ounces the optimum resister value is found for the cart i.e. lets say its 51k so I just change out R13/14 and replace with the 51k is this correct and let’s say the optimum cap is 120pf I then add this cap CX in as shown drawn in on the sch please advice
Thanks
Colin
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Nick
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Postby Nick » Thu Jul 30, 2009 5:33 pm

Yes, thats right, you need to make the cap the required value minus the cable capacitance, and minus the miller cap at that point. If its a ecc38 I would gestimate about 90pf for miller.
it's an interesting fact that most people have more than the average number of arms.

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Postby colin.hepburn » Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:30 pm

Nick wrote:Yes, thats right, you need to make the cap the required value minus the cable capacitance, and minus the miller cap at that point. If its a ecc38 I would gestimate about 90pf for miller.

HiAll
Thanks nick
Right as I have no means of checking cable capacitance I email the chap who modded the rega arm and according to him this cables capacitance is so low I should just ignore it as it near to Zero
I wood question that but if we say the ECC83 miller cap is 90pf the cable will have some capacitance so lets say its 100pf total
So the 1042 cart load is 150-200 so minus the 100pf leaving 250pf do I just try different cap values up to the 250pf say starting with 120pf or something until I feel it sounds right to my ear same with resistor values up or down from 47k
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Nick
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Postby Nick » Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:09 pm

I would expect that the cable would have maybe 50pf or so capacitance. Do you know what cable it is?
it's an interesting fact that most people have more than the average number of arms.

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Postby colin.hepburn » Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:48 pm

Nick wrote:I would expect that the cable would have maybe 50pf or so capacitance. Do you know what cable it is?

No just that he refers to it as SOFC (silver and ofc copper cocktail) with separate earth wire he wont say much about it
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Postby Neal » Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:31 am

I wouldn't get too hung up on it TBH. IME it makes very little difference you'll get more difference by messing about with VTA than load cap and R. I'd stick to 47K and place a 100pf or less cap across it.

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Postby colin.hepburn » Sun Aug 02, 2009 3:29 pm

Neal wrote:I wouldn't get too hung up on it TBH. IME it makes very little difference you'll get more difference by messing about with VTA than load cap and R. I'd stick to 47K and place a 100pf or less cap across it.

Yep Neal
Your probably right :) I just want to tweak it and try it and see if the differences are audibly for the better or not as some will say it’s important to get it right and of course some will disagree as always at the end of the day the 47k is just the industry standard for MM carts
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Mike H
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Postby Mike H » Tue Aug 25, 2009 3:37 pm

Interesting the guy won't say what the wiring capacitance is, either A. he won't say cos someone's bound to complain it's 'still too much' (whatever it is :lol: ) B. he can't test it.

You need a thing that can test capacitance like a decent DMM.

If my own experience is anything to go by the wiring cap + Miller is quite enough by themselves. Tho depends what the cart wants but that of course is why you might want low C wiring.

NB the input Miller cap effect may be greatly reduced by using a cascode input stage or (shock horror) a pentode :wink:
 

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colin.hepburn
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Postby colin.hepburn » Tue Aug 25, 2009 3:58 pm

Mike H wrote:Interesting the guy won't say what the wiring capacitance is, either A. he won't say cos someone's bound to complain it's 'still too much' (whatever it is :lol: ) B. he can't test it.

:wink:


HA I did find a name on the Blue cable as Van Damma 268- 007-060 classic pro patch AM noise rejecting braid ultra pure SOFC conductors cant find a supplier thou
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colin.hepburn
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Postby colin.hepburn » Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:48 pm

colin.hepburn wrote:
Mike H wrote:Interesting the guy won't say what the wiring capacitance is, either A. he won't say cos someone's bound to complain it's 'still too much' (whatever it is :lol: ) B. he can't test it.

:wink:


HA I did find a name on the Blue cable as Van Damma 268- 007-060 classic pro patch AM noise rejecting braid ultra pure SOFC conductors cant find a supplier thou

A this mite be the stuff
http://www.van-damme.com/products/class ... series.htm
http://www.vdctrading.com/docs/13.pdf
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Mike H
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Postby Mike H » Tue Aug 25, 2009 7:11 pm

A-ha, near the bottom it sez core-to-core (?) 50 pF per metre, core-to-screen, 95 pF per metre. So there you have it Carruthers Image


So if your cable's 1 metre bet on at least 100pF I'm guessing

.
 

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Postby colin.hepburn » Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:03 pm

Mike H wrote:A-ha, near the bottom it sez core-to-core (?) 50 pF per metre, core-to-screen, 95 pF per metre. So there you have it Carruthers Image


So if your cable's 1 metre bet on at least 100pF I'm guessing

.

so then
Goldring 1042
Load Resistance: 47,000 Ohm
Load Capacitance: 150-200pF
So if we take off say 91pf for miller capacitance and 100pf for cable
I take it I just add in a cap somewhere between 100/150pf and perhaps try lowering the resistance
Colin

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