Some thoughts on Vitamin D, flu, etc

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IslandPink
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#76 Re: Some thoughts on Vitamin D, flu, etc

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Nick wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:02 pm My point is that being in the sun is not without its own risk. AFAIK there is no risk from the pill.
Yes, fair point.
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#77 Re: Some thoughts on Vitamin D, flu, etc

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Nick wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:22 pm Well, not entirely, unless I have missed something that paper says
Figure 1 , supported by Table 4.
Then as an example from the US :
https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Vitam ... fessional/
See section 'Reference Intakes'.

Looking into the UK recommendations it gets quite confusing, I think the general advice is for quite low amounts , but NICE has quite generous amounts recommended for people who test low.
However hardly anybody is routinely tested.
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#78 Re: Some thoughts on Vitamin D, flu, etc

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I don't disagree with you as tbh I am not sure what point you are making. That figure looks to me as if 10 and 25 have the same effect. And higher levels start to make a change. But could that be indicative that the higher levels are overwhelming the bodies regulation of levels?
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#79 Re: Some thoughts on Vitamin D, flu, etc

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Well you have to have an understanding of what a healthy level is supposed to be. Values like 50mmol/L are considered barely adequate.
I guess the evidence for what an optimum level should be is not entirely covered by that Vieth paper.
I thought it was the correct one, but there is a one with a similar title that has more discussion and about twice as many graphs, somewhere.
For many years, the UK RDA was set at 400iu for eveybody. There was apparently no better basis for this, other than it was enough to prevent rickets in children. Meanwhile the Swedish government were supplementing everyone with 4000iu.
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#80 Re: Some thoughts on Vitamin D, flu, etc

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I guess the evidence for what an optimum level should be is not entirely covered by that Vieth paper.
I think that is the source of my confusion over what point you are trying to make.

I mean the above without prejudice BTW, maybe I should reread the start of this thread./
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#81 Re: Some thoughts on Vitamin D, flu, etc

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Just reread it, still not sure what level you are suggesting Mark.
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#82 Re: Some thoughts on Vitamin D, flu, etc

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I need to time to pull together where I got all the data on this. I've read a number of Vieth's papers over the years, and dozens of articles linked via the Vitamin D council. The problem with some of the bigger governments' advice is that they base their RDA's purely on considerations of musculoskeletal problems. On that basis they can say 50nmol/L is fine. This doesn't account for vitamin D's optimum level for the immune system, or other associated conditions like MS, bowel cancer, testosterone levels etc. The healthy range for the lab I used is given as 50-175nmol/L, and I believe a level of 70+ is regarded by many as a recommended level when its broader functions in the body are taken into account.

This is a very recent UK review which seems to inform the current RNI levels ( now I must find out why 'RNI', not RDA ! )
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... report.pdf
There's a very good section in there about Vit D and UVA/B in the UK, that replicates my previous knowledge about this subject which came from a very good article in Sky & Telescope magazine in around 1992 ( 'The Physics of Suntanning' ). I can't find that article online, but see the above link , section 3, and in particular, Figure 3 - it shows the issues nicely.
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#83 Re: Some thoughts on Vitamin D, flu, etc

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Nick wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 11:34 am
Best to get a taste for the natural essential element sources such as shrimp and Herring
Remember the sea is not an infinite resource, and not everyone can afford seafood.
Also, not everyone eats seafood.
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#84 Re: Some thoughts on Vitamin D, flu, etc

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Dave the bass wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:18 pm
Nick wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 11:34 am
Best to get a taste for the natural essential element sources such as shrimp and Herring
Remember the sea is not an infinite resource, and not everyone can afford seafood.
Also, not everyone eats seafood.
I did consider adding that as well given that Kaye is a vegetarian.
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#85 Re: Some thoughts on Vitamin D, flu, etc

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Shouldn't VitD levels and supplements be prescribed, I thought taking too higher dose of the supplement could lead to kidney damage?
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#86 Re: Some thoughts on Vitamin D, flu, etc

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No, there are general recommendations that supplementation is advisable for all and year round now at 400iu/day, but that's pretty conservative.
I think Greg mentioned 4000iu/day as a safe upper limit officially in the UK. Reinhold Vieth from Canada - one of the world experts, says there's very little evidence of danger below 10,000iu/day based on all the evidence he could collect.
Most poisoning ( calcification - which could include kidneys ) has occurred with errors in fortification of milk, or cooking oils swapped with the wrong stuff, and the daily levels were typically much higher even than this.
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#87 Re: Some thoughts on Vitamin D, flu, etc

Post by jack »

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52371688

Official government advice:
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/phe- ... -vitamin-d

NHS official advice on vitamin D:
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vitamins- ... vitamin-d/

10ug/day (400iu) supplement for normal adults during autumn and winter...
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#88 Re: Some thoughts on Vitamin D, flu, etc

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Nick wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:22 pm Well, not entirely, unless I have missed something that paper says
So...coming back to this.
https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/6 ... f_ipsecsha
I see the relevant section to read as being after the tables and graphs, the section "ASSESSMENT OF EVIDENCE", specifically the first two sub-sections after this.
There he puts forward his arguments for treating 100nmol/L as a healthy blood level to aim for, and with reference to the above statistic graphs/tables, argues that this requires significantly more than 800iu/day to achieve.

There are a really large number of papers he's published since 1999 actually. I will have a look through some of the more recent ones.
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#89 Re: Some thoughts on Vitamin D, flu, etc

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#90 Re: Some thoughts on Vitamin D, flu, etc

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Superb lecture here on current thinking :
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