Arkless

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Nick
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#16 Re: Arkless

Post by Nick »

I had a quick look, all standard stuff, but it is being described as a layman’s guide. Its very easy to describe what a perfect power supply should do, the reality is they are never perfect, that’s where the fun comes in, and once it moves from perfect (where it never was or could be) then its grey areas and no longer one size fits all.

To paraphrase the prefix to Horowitz and Hill, There is a tendency for text books to describe the theory instead of the art of electronics.

The danger I see in trying to explain in simple terms something like electronics is that you end up learning a simple version of electronics, but not knowing that its a simple version. A little knowledge can be more dangerous than no knowledge.
Whenever an honest man discovers that he's mistaken, he will either cease to be mistaken or he will cease to be honest.
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#17 Re: Arkless

Post by Nick »

A example of the problem is shown in one of the responses "I think I'm following so far.". But how would he know if he was actually following, or just thought he followed. That why practical use of what you learn matters, if you cant put what you have learnt into practice, they you probably haven’t learnt it. There are many good introduction electronic texts out there, but you have to learn by doing. IMHO, understanding is more than knowing.

I am reminded of the quote "Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time, and it annoys the pig."
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Dr Bunsen Honeydew
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#18 Re: Arkless

Post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

Exactly :bounce:

Which is why it is appropriate here. :mrgreen:
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#19 Re: Arkless

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Dr Bunsen Honeydew wrote: Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:20 pm Exactly :bounce:

Which is why it is appropriate here. :mrgreen:
But probably unnecessary.
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#20 Re: Arkless

Post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

Are you sure, I detect some, shall we say bordering on arrogance of certainty of knowledge, and this will show how it is self defeating (I hope), there is nothing that defeats the empiric, no matter how many certificates or doctorates.

Hi-Fi is soooo simple, first establish what is *right* according to your ears, your music, your room, your pocket, and if you can't buy it to satisfy then learn how to make it, but with the end as being the motivation not the process and trying to prove how clever you are. Once having created that you can see if others agree, if they do you have a business, if they don't then just enjoy it your self.

Once you have the empiric then you need opinion, and hopefully consensus. This is where it gets difficult, because all the slurpers who need the slurp and say they deserve it will try to put you down and stop you, because it may interfere with their status quo and the established brainwash.

Anything like this that opens peoples minds (and ears) by making them think and maybe have light bulb moment has to be a good thing, don't you think !

Following and helping establish Gurus just makes you a closed minded servant. An open mind is most important in all things.
Last edited by Dr Bunsen Honeydew on Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#21 Re: Arkless

Post by Nick »

Anything like this that opens peoples minds (and ears) by making them think and maybe have light bulb moment has to be a good thing, don't you think !
Yes, but I have my doubts if this will open any minds. Happy to be wrong though.
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#22 Re: Arkless

Post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

Bake-offs and dems let reality of opinion do the talking, but no the politics and maneuvering of the deceptive and fearful that they are not as good as they think they are.

That is why they are being blocked.
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#23 Re: Arkless

Post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

Here is some nice reality to add to the mix for them, I wonder if any of them will take any notice - BTW haven't a clue who this guy is.

PalsHuffMor
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I'm Christopher.

I am a mere 'consumer', so I won't be attempting to 'follow'. I will never have the breadth or depth of knowledge, or practical experience required to comment authoritatively about the technical merits of a component, so I will leave that to 'the experts'. True, some designers / manufacturers may impress me more than others when communicating their philosophy, but that's as deep as I go. Going by some of the stuff I have read online, applying just a little knowledge to some people is akin to 'activating an idiot'. I don't want to fall into that trap myself and I would rather we didn't create any more of them.

My 'skill' in this area is knowing whether something sounds 'right' to me, and only, of course, compared to what I have heard before. Hearing as many different bits of gear as possible is therefore my aim. In addition to perceived sound quality, the other issue I care passionately about is value for money. Does component quality and sound quality justify the price being charged? 'Mythbusting', for me, is about debunking the marketing BS and rip-off pricing that afflicts so much of the hifi market. I welcome anyone who can help with that...
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pre65
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#24 Re: Arkless

Post by pre65 »

He sounds like a Richard disciple, or even Richard in disguise ? :lol:
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#25 Re: Arkless

Post by Michael L »

Dr Bunsen Honeydew wrote: Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:55 pm Here is some nice reality to add to the mix for them, I wonder if any of them will take any notice - BTW haven't a clue who this guy is.

PalsHuffMor
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I'm Christopher.

I am a mere 'consumer', so I won't be attempting to 'follow'. I will never have the breadth or depth of knowledge, or practical experience required to comment authoritatively about the technical merits of a component, so I will leave that to 'the experts'. True, some designers / manufacturers may impress me more than others when communicating their philosophy, but that's as deep as I go. Going by some of the stuff I have read online, applying just a little knowledge to some people is akin to 'activating an idiot'. I don't want to fall into that trap myself and I would rather we didn't create any more of them.

My 'skill' in this area is knowing whether something sounds 'right' to me, and only, of course, compared to what I have heard before. Hearing as many different bits of gear as possible is therefore my aim. In addition to perceived sound quality, the other issue I care passionately about is value for money. Does component quality and sound quality justify the price being charged? 'Mythbusting', for me, is about debunking the marketing BS and rip-off pricing that afflicts so much of the hifi market. I welcome anyone who can help with that...
Value for money - well in my book the best value comes from diy even if that means buying a kit. The bonus is the satisfaction that comes from knowing it is one's own creation. A scratch build from one's own design would be the ultimate. Following that it's buying second hand. The only thing I've bought new in recent years was a Schiit dac. Personally, I would be a lot happier with this bake off if all the kit was diy.
We wouldn't have all this nonsense that's being written here.
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#26 Re: Arkless

Post by Cressy Snr »

Hmmm...

"disciple", "nonsense"

Subtle...
Presumably all the "nonsense" is being written by Nick, Neal and everyone else who is contributing then.

Specify who or what you are referring to chaps.

Go on..If the intention is benign, give examples, or just shut up and grow up, the pair of you!
Last edited by Cressy Snr on Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:34 am, edited 2 times in total.
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shane
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#27 Re: Arkless

Post by shane »

pre65 wrote: Sun Jul 23, 2017 8:40 am He sounds like a Richard disciple, or even Richard in disguise ? :lol:
I just thought he sounded like someone with a degree of common sense. Nick's right, if you can only just about grasp the basic concept of how a circuit works, you don't have enough knowledge to make it work properly, and the only way to get that is to spend a huge amount of time finding out why it doesn't do what you expected or hoped by trial and error, and by the patient explanations of others when you find out that it's a lot more complicated than you thought.

The shunt PSU I'm building for my WAD Phono2 from Nick's circuit is a pretty simple device, but it's kept me occupied for about four months now, finding out why it hums and sorting it out. A very enjoyable task, but also frustrating and tantalising as underneath that hum is a lovely sound. It's slightly humbling to realise that many people here could probably knock it up in about an hour and a half, but I'm getting there! When it's done it will have cost me about £150, but if I cost my time at a reasonable rate, I'd probably have done better to buy one of Nick's ten grand efforts.
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#28 Re: Arkless

Post by Michael L »

Cressy Snr wrote: Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:25 am Hmmm...

"disciple", "nonsense"

Subtle...
Presumably all the "nonsense" is being written by Nick, Neal and everyone else who is contributing then.

Specify who or what you are referring to chaps.

Go on..If the intention is benign, give examples, or just shut up and grow up, the pair of you!
I wasn't referring to this thread in particular - it's very refreshing indeed to read something that doesn't mention shilling and slurping.
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pre65
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#29 Re: Arkless

Post by pre65 »

pre65 wrote: Sun Jul 23, 2017 8:40 am He sounds like a Richard disciple, or even Richard in disguise ? :lol:
A jovial remark (note the laughing emoticon) based on how I read the "Christopher" post.

Is one not allowed to have an opinion now ?

I would welcome absolute honesty and lack of B/S in life in general (particularly politicians :) ) but will it ever happen ? :(
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Dr Bunsen Honeydew
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#30 Re: Arkless

Post by Dr Bunsen Honeydew »

Hi-Fi design seems to me to be pretty unique, combining as it does a basically mathematic and scientific process with an artistic and emotionally appreciated outcome / result - the problem is they are really opposed in nature and to combine them in one person is difficult, people tend to be one or the other. To put it simply you have to have both if you are going to make this stuff well.

There are devils in the process. I find the scientific / objective approach means product is made, and is safe and professional but it is pot luck if it plays good music. People like Quad were a classic example. I find too much of the artistic approach tends to create what is called Foo and CAN lead to unsafe and unprofessional product that gives the industry a bad name. Somewhere in the middle lies the balance point. I can think or no other industry and product that gets this result. Nearest is cars, Alfa Romeo wouldn't have sold many cars without the artistic and emotional content of their products v bland German robots. For a car ENTHUSIAST the pleasure of driving is more important than A to B. For a Hi-Fi ENTHUSIAST the tingle on the back of the neck is more important than the thing and its specs. BUT with both the majority of people just want a car or something to play music.
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