Streaming services

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Greg
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#1 Streaming services

Post by Greg »

So, I think I am now in the 21st century being the proud owner of a Rasberry Pi2 music server set up for me by my good friend Nick (peperoni). The RPi is feeding by coax a Beresford Caiman II dac with the latest V6 firmware, into a passive pre into my WAD 300B clone into my WAD KLS3's. I am very satisfied with the resulting sound particularly as streamed music is supplied by my modem which is at the opposite end of the house to my listening room so I am using ethernet connections through 'home plugs' which seem to work well.

At the moment I am trialling and making comparisons between streaming services Deezer, Qobuz and Tidal. They all offer a free 30 day trial period and cost to continue to use their libraries seems to be between £10 and £20 a month which in my view is very reasonable compared to buying hard copy recordings, unless of course if owning a hard copy is a personal issue for you. They all seem to perform pretty well and in my view, overall sound quality is better compared to any CDP I have previously used. I control the system using Squeezepad on my iPad.

Who else here is streaming music this way? What streaming services have you tried and what are your preferences?

The final question, (which is the one to worry me) is, any thoughts on how my system is set up?

Let me know and thanks in anticipation of your responses.
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Ray P
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#2

Post by Ray P »

Hi Greg.

Can the Bereford accept I2S input? If so I think you'll find an improvement from adopting it as the interface between the RPi and the DAC, then add an isolator/reclocker between the RPi and DAC to get a cleaner, lower jitter data feed....

Maybe I could swing by your way sometime with my streamer/DAC?

http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5955

We could also maybe 'spin' some DSD?

Do you have any of your own media on your network?

Ray
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#3

Post by Neal »

Don't use those services Greg but our daughter does have a Spotify account and it sounds very good indeed at 320kbs via the RPi. Otherwise all our music is stored on a NAs these days.

To me the biggest revelation of the RPi was moving away from SPDIF and going I2S; it is a very positive step forward IMHO. I realized this first when I fitted an RPi to my DIY TDA1541a DAC and then with an IQAudio DAC+ fitted to a second RPi. There was a noticeable improvement in clarity, definition, separation and detail over my modded SBMKII / Bushmaster MKII...which was pretty good in these areas already.

The second improvement I noticed was when I enabled resampling in the control s/w for the RPI/IQAudioDAC+ (MoOde), the difference again was noticeable but it affected the 3D'ness (for want of a better description!) of the music and sounded very natural.

Which led me to play with resampling and filters in Squeezelite on the RPi fitted to in my TDA1541a running max2play. Tweaking these filters and resampling settings made a greater change to the sound than any hardware changes I've ever come across. From detailed and spacious 3D to narrow upfront and in your face!

I have no idea if the Caimen II can support I2S but I think Stan hinted at a possible modification to one of his DACs a while back but I've not seen anything since...
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Greg
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#4

Post by Greg »

Ray P wrote:Can the Bereford accept I2S input? If so I think you'll find an improvement from adopting it as the interface between the RPi and the DAC, then add an isolator/reclocker between the RPi and DAC to get a cleaner, lower jitter data feed....
Re: 12S, I believe so, but as you know I am not that educated, so have a look here and make sure you also clic on Features and Specifications.

http://www.homehifi.co.uk/S/tc-7534.htm
Ray P wrote:Maybe I could swing by your way sometime with my streamer/DAC?

http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5955

We could also maybe 'spin' some DSD?

Do you have any of your own media on your network?

Ray
I would welcome another visit from you here to help with all this. I have total faith in peperoni, but I'm sure Nick is also open to direction from someone seriously in the 'know'. Exploring DSD would be good.

At present I have just started on loading my own media onto the network. Having ripped all my CD's in JRiver, I have found indexing leaves a lot to be altered in order to be understandable, so next task is to re-write the file names so they are realistic and understandably appropriate. Once I have re-written the file names, I intend to down load onto a memory stick to use directly into the Pi. Others have suggested this is not the best option and a wired supply from the PC hard drive into the Pi is a better option. no doubt, but that is not possible to me at present, hence my use of home plugs.

Let me know.
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Greg
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#5

Post by Greg »

Neal wrote:Don't use those services Greg but our daughter does have a Spotify account and it sounds very good indeed at 320kbs via the RPi. Otherwise all our music is stored on a NAs these days....
Sorry, why not use those services?
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#6

Post by Ray P »

Greg, had a quick look at your DAC via the link you posted. I'm not familiar with Bereford DACs and thought it was a DIY type of approach rather than a finished item. I don't see an obvious way to use I2S as exploiting that would be at the PCB level and I didn't see any references to that. Further research might reveal some more info, or perhaps an example of someone having already done it. Even if you can feed I2S data to the Beresford DAC you would need a means of getting the data from the renderer (RPi) to the DAC and you might need to use something like a LVDS solution (such as Twisted Pear's Teleporters).

If you want to go further along this road exploring improved SQ you might be better off exploring a DIY solution and retain the Beresford as is. Maybe something like the Soekris DAC board;

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vendors- ... 4-khz.html

I'm pretty sure this will better the Beresford and will open the door to exploring different digital filters, power supply tweaking etc. I'm pretty sure others have the Soekris working with the RPi.

Ray
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#7

Post by Neal »

Greg wrote:
Neal wrote:Don't use those services Greg but our daughter does have a Spotify account and it sounds very good indeed at 320kbs via the RPi. Otherwise all our music is stored on a NAs these days....
Sorry, why not use those services?
Oops should have read 'I don't use...' :)
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#8 RPI

Post by peperoni »

Just thought I might chip in and say that we are also using a HiFi Berry add on board for the audio output. And the Tidal that Greg is using is flac not mp3 and Qobus is high def flac as well.
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#9

Post by The Stratmangler »

I'm just trying out Qobuz on the 15 day free trial, so thanks for the nudge Greg.
Currently playing Emily Remler's "East To Wes" on my Squeezebox Touch and it sounds very good indeed.
Unfortunately I haven't got the CD or files to compare it to, but I'm sure that in the next couple of weeks I'll find something on Qobuz that I do have.

My online streaming is usually confined to BBC radio and the occasional bit of Radio Paradise (the 320kbps stream).

My recommendation for improved audio is to get rid of the Home Plugs and use a proper wired ethernet connection.
The Home Plugs work by superimposing data over the mains, and they inject a lot of RF nasties too.
A valve amp with choke input is unlikely to be troubled much by it, but sources might well be bothered.
It's possible to get proper external grade Cat5e, and it's frequently easier to route cable externally than it is to run it internally.
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#10

Post by shane »

I know it may not be your favourite forum Greg, but Marco's getting all excited about streaming to the Pi on AoS, and a lot of useful stuff's been posted. Quite a long thread here:

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthre ... Audio-DAC-!!
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#11

Post by simon »

Mmmmm, the Pi Core DAC is the one Dave recently had a lot of fun with, along with a digital amp. It's very tempting I have to say...
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Greg
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#12

Post by Greg »

The Stratmangler wrote:I'm just trying out Qobuz on the 15 day free trial, so thanks for the nudge Greg
Having read your other posts, glad you are really liking Qobuz. I also think it is an excellent service.

I acknowledge your concerns about the use of home plugs. In time I expect to wire to eliminent them. In the mean time I have no issues with their performance and sound is good.

I still have not got my system completely sorted. I am suffering signal drop out which is a pain. Nick tells me this is a classic problem with my Virgin internet feed which although should be fast, because of over subscription can in fact be very slow. When it drops out, I can loose signal for the best part of a minute and when it comes back in, it might be a continuation of the track being listened to or a return to the beginning of that track. The circumstance of return to the beginning of the track suggests to me this may be more than a simple loss of signal stream so I need to explore this issue more with Nick in case this is a possible RPi thing.

Otherwise, I will be driven to have a BT line reconnected to my house and then to sign up to something like Plus Net. We shall see........I need to work a few things out first.
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andrew Ivimey
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#13

Post by andrew Ivimey »

There are enough people here who find this sort of stuff a doddle. So by now someone should be able to say that this pi sort of stuff stuff is or is not better than discrete dinosaur equipment. If its only size that matters we all have our iphones and samsungs etc-remarkable in themselves...

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#14

Post by Ray P »

andrew Ivimey wrote:There are enough people here who find this sort of stuff a doddle. So by now someone should be able to say that this pi sort of stuff stuff is or is not better than discrete dinosaur equipment. If its only size that matters we all have our iphones and samsungs etc-remarkable in themselves...

Marco does as he did nail his colours to the mast!
Andrew, there are no absolutes in this game, but you know that.

It depends on the what and how you're using your RPi (there are plenty of other devices) because it is quite possible to make it sound awful and, of course, what discrete dinosaur equipment you're comparing it too.

What I think is certain is that computer-based audio now gives you a different route by which it is possible to achieve exceptional sound quality.

Ray
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#15

Post by Nick »

So by now someone should be able to say that this pi sort of stuff stuff is or is not better than discrete dinosaur equipment.
Its better than some, not others. The Pi itself is 60% of the SB Touch at 40% of the current ebay Touch price (with added DAC or S/P DIFF board and simple power supply). If the 60% is all you use, then its a great option.

As a streaming client for LMS I think its a great solution. The IQ Dac IMHO is a perfectly fine neutral DAC, great value for money, you may like it you may not. But not IMHO a giant killer. I think its let down by the lack of analogue buffers, but given thats the hard expensive bit, its understandable.

As a streaming i2s source its ok, but the lack of MCLK is a problem for a lot of DAC chips. So it may be great, or not depending on your requirements.

As a SBC, its a good general purpose solution, not the best at everything, but nothing ever is.
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